PARLIAMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
SENATE CHAMBER
THURSDAY 25th, NOVEMBER, 2021
The House assembled at 10.30 a.m.
(MR. VICE PRESIDENT in the Chair)
PRAYER
The Chaplin led the House in Prayer
Announcements from the Chair
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, kea le lumelisa hoseng hoa kajeno.
Litsebiso tsa Labone la la 25 Pulungoana, 2021:
- Litho tsa HIV and AIDS li hopotsoa ka Memo ea National Aids Commission ea ketekelo ea World Aids Day mane Manthabiseng Convention Centre ka Laboraro la la 01 Tšitoe 2021.
- Next Item Mr. Clerk.
- PROCEEDINGS ON SUSTANTIVE MOTIONS AND BILL
Bill
Drugs of Abuse (Amendment) Bill 2020
(Second Reading)
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Ntlha ea Tsamaiso, ntate Motlatsi oa Mookameli.
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Ntlha ea Tsamaiso ka Honourable Hloaele.
Honourable Members lifono tseno ha li koaloe.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Rea u leboha ntate, hoseng hona u le Mookameli oa Ntlo hoseng hona.
Ke u hlomphe haholo. Kea hlokomela hore Mohlomphehi Letona la rona la Bophelo o teng, ke kopa ke mo hlomphe le eena, le lona Bahlomphehi ke le hlomphe kaofela.
Mohlomphehi ua ka, u ntumelle hore ke tsebise Ntlo ena hore mono moo u lutseng teng hantle-ntle u Setho se tiileng sa Maliba-Matšo. Ha ba e tsebe ba bang ka mona, ke e hlokometse taba eo hore u na le boholo bo ikhethileng Maliba-Matšo, ‘me re ne re ntse re bua haufinyane mona hore u tle u elelloe hore beke le beke u ‘ne u ilo hlaha ka moo.
Ntlha ea Tsamaiso eo ke emang ka eona Mohlomphehi ke ea hore u tle u se ke ua lumela, e mpe ebe u ne u qetela maobane (Interrupted).
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Honourable Member!
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Ntlha ea Tsamaiso ke ena Mohlomphehi ua ka. U se ke ua etsa ruling eaba two seconds later, oa e etsolla.
Ke ne ke re u hlokomele, kea leboha Mohlomphehi.
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Honourable Member litaba tse ling re tla li bua hae Maliba-Matšo, se ke ua li tlisa ka mona. Ebile ke u tataisitse hore na moo u bonang ke loba tsamaiso, u etse joang. Rona le uena re bua ho ngollana.
Ntate? Ka ha joale ke tšaba ho u buisa hampe ka lebaka la likobo, u le Morena oa likobo se ka nketsa tjena ntate.
Litho tse Khabane, re fetela moo Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane le tla re tataisa ho re fetisetsa mothating o latelang.
Question that the House resolves itself into a Committee on the Bill, put and agreed to.
The House resolved itself into the Committee on the Bill forthwith.
Pause (1 Minute)
In the Committee
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, order!
Honourable Minister u tla e tlosa liboba ka hore u tle u re nkele Clause 1, u tlole 2, 3 ebe u ea ho 4.
CLAUSE 1 and 4
HON. MINISTER S. SEKATLE: Clause one, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, ntlha eo ke e hlalosang Sehlooho sa Bill ena. Ke ntho e tloaelehileng hore Bill e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe e rehoe lebitso. Ka mokhoa o tšoanang le eona ena, e na le lebitso. Ke tlhaloso ea lebitso leo.
kea leboha Mohlomphehi.
U itse ke tlole tse ling?
MR. CHAIRPERSON: U tla tlola 2 and 3,e ebe u ea ho 4.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Ba nthahisa tjoto batho bana.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Mosebetsi oa ka ke ho tla bona hore ha u e rahe, ntate.
HON. MINISTER S. SEKATLE: Kapa ba ntahisa ka matekoane?
CLAUSE 4
This particular Clause, e etsa amend Clause 11 (2) ea Principal Law. E bontša requirements, Law requirements for licensing.
Lintho tseo ekareng tsa hore motho a tle le litlaleho tsa Sepolesa, ka kotloloho li ne li le sieo haholo-holo ha e le a foreigner a tle le bopaki, ‘me a etsoe vet ke Sepolesa sa tikoloho (Interpol). Ke Clause four ka mokhoa oo e leng kateng.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi u itse ke fella ho four?
MR. CHAIRPERSON: E ea Ntate, feela u sisinye.
HON. MINISTER S. SEKATLE: Kea sisinya Mohlomphehi hore tsena li eme e le karolo ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao.
Question that Clause 1 and 4 stand part of the Bill, proposed.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka oa Thaba.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, in general terms, re ka re, re utloisisa hantle ka boitlhaloso ba Honourable Minister hore na se lebelletsoeng kapa seo re ileng ra se siea morao ha re etsa Molao ona lekhetlo la pele ke eng.Litaba tsena tseo Letona le qetang ho li teka, che, kea kholoa ke hobane e le Motaung, joale o sa re a ke a etse express hore the intentions ke li fe.
Feela rea bona ‘me re li aka ka hohle-hohle hore ehlile Molaong ona, ka’nete ha e le ho bua ‘nete ke investment ea batho boholo kapa 90 percent, it will be from foreigners ba tl’o etsa Business ena.
So, kaletsa eo re e etsang hore ba tle ba be le boikutlo ba hore ba sireletsehile Number 1. Empa le Basotho ba lokela ba sireletsoe ha u bua ka taba ena, hobane it is going to involve le botšepehi ba bona batho bao ha ba tla ka tsela e joalo.
Ka hona re aka ka hohle-hohle. Ke tlatsa Letona feela ke utloa u sa rate ho mo etsa challenge hore a li hlalose in detail hobane e le Motaung. Eena u nts’o u re feela tsoela-pele, rea e bona taba ena re ke ke ra e tlohela.
Empa che ha ho na khang, ha hona lere le khopo mono. Le ‘na Bakuena ha ba bua ke ee ke ba tšehetse.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Re lebohile Setho se Khabane, empa le mali a llelana.
Clauses 1 and 4: Put and agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, u tla re Clause six, seven, eight.
Clauses 6, 7, and 8
HON. MINISTER S. SEKATLE: Clause 6, e etsa amend Section 23 ea The Principal Law by adding more crown for The Minister to vary, suspend or revoke Registration. Then ehlile o fana ka Li-permit tsa li-License. Ebile o ba bontša hore na license e dormant ha ho le joang.
Ka nako e ‘ngoe, the operator might fail to operate ka nako e telele for more than 12 months, ha ho le joalo, ho tšoanela hore Minister a hlahlobe litaba tseo.
Ka nako e ‘ngoe the operator might find hore o tšoanela hore a fetole maoa a hore ha a ntse a etsa mosebetsi oa manufacturing, ke Karolo ena e ka thusang Minister to vary or suspend or revoke registration.
Ke Clause six eo, Bahlomphehi
Clause 7
Ke e buang ka power to limit licenses and stock, ‘me e bolela hore batho ba ka fuoang li-License tsena ka lebaka la hore ho fana ka tse ngata haholo li-License ho ka theola boleng ba khoebo. Ho tšoanela hore re hlokomele haholo hore we limit the number of licensees.
Ke hore batho ba tla hoeba e le hona ho thusa khoebo hore e nyolohe ho fapana le hore joale re kenye bohle, ‘me re theole prices, re theole mokhoa oa ho sebetsa ho be bohlasoa feela.
Ke Clause 7, e thusang hore ho etsoe limit licensees and stop the supply. Ha u etsa over supply automatically you reduce the price ea thepa eo u e rekisang.
So, we must be very careful hore na re etsa supply ntho e kae into the market.
Clause 8
Le eona ke buile ka eona, it is limiting the number of licenses.
Mohlomphehi, kea sisinya hore Clauses 6, 7 le 8 li eme e le Karolo ea Setšoantšo sa Molao.
Loud laughter.
Question that Clauses 6,7, and 8 stand part of the Bill, proposed.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa Thaba.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: E nthabisa haholo instruction tsena, joale li bontša hore ho tla ba le taelo (Interrupted).
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Hana Molao oo ke oa eng ntate, ke oa matekoane?
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Ke oa Cannabis. Ho na le phapang lipakeng tsa ena le eane ea ka haeno ka Ha-Makhabane, ha e tšoane le hona.
Hona ho entsoe ka tsela e khethehileng, ho lenngoe ka tsela e hlokolosi e nang le expertise. If you go wrong, you can’t make any impact to the world markets.
Ke re ke thabisoa ke taba ena, Mohlomphehi ea hore now The Minister has been able to see hore na lintho li ka itsamaela habonolo joang. Batho a amohele kapa a batle license just for the sake of saving it.
Mona ho tla shejoa, ebile o tla khaoleloa matla a ho ba le eona haeba a sa bonahale a entse ena, mong’a eona a sa bonahale a tsamaea ka tsela e lebelletsoeng. Ke hore etlare haeba a tšoere license, then the Minister should suspend or revoke that register or the license or permits hore ho tle ho be le taba ea ho li khutlisa.
I still believe Honourable Minister there were immense number of these licenses, tse ileng tsa fihla matsohong a sa kang a tseba na a ne a li batlela eng. Ka nako eo, pele ho etsoa le Chelete ena eseng e hlokahala, ho na le batho ba liofisiri tsa ‘Muso ba ileng ba nka phiphitha ea tsona. Ha ke tsebe le haeba you have managed to have retrieved them, but I still think hore li ntse li le into wrong hands tse sa etseng letho, tse li rekisistseng. Eaba li etsa tšobotsi ho batho ba ka tsebang ho sebetsa ka hore they were offered in a very petty way, eo batho ba bangata ba neng ba nahana hore ba ka tseba ho etsa joalo.
Ke rata le Clause 7 mona, moo power to limit license and stock will be controlled. Ekare mona u ka khetha Ofisi le Bahlanka ba tla sala morao phethahatso ea mosebetsi ona e le hobane, hobane mona this is where re ka bonang tšenyeho.
U ntse u boletse hantle ka nepo hore if it is not controlled, ke hore eona supply e le stock se sengata, re tla bona e senya tšobotsi ea taba ena. Mohlomong e nkeloa cheap kapa ehlile joale ka ha u boletse hore e theola the market value in fact of the international.
Ntho ena ke moriana o thethefatsang bohloko ba batho ba cancer, a medical needs. Ka hona e tl’o ba ntho e kholohali ha re e lema, we are blessed re se na letho ka weather e ntle e etsang attract batho. ‘Me the control has to be very stringent e le hore batho ba se ke ba iketsetsa borata ka tšobotsi ena.
Joale taba e kholo le kabo e etsang, ke batho bao u tla ba khetha hore ebe bona ba tla re etsa vet re le batho.
Ka hona ntate ke re, I encourage these Clauses. Ebile li tl’o re etsa batho eseng bathoana.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR PROF. N. RAPAPA: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Kea kholoa ke ne ke batla ho ba le kutloisiso feela mona 6(g). Ho na le moo hothoeng, ‘a drug of abuse to a youth for recreational use’. Ke ne ke batla ho utloa feela hore na if it is not the youth – is it okay?
Ha re fetela Clause 8, ke bona eka Sekhooa se hlile se mpalletse. Clause 8. 27(a) ha ke bala Section ena kaofela ha eona e re, ‘the Minister may, on the advice of the narcotics bureau, refuse to grant a licence’, ‘me joale hoa buuoa condition eno: ‘…if the proposed project development impact is enough to warrant an additional licence in terms of jobs to be created, value addition or empowerment of the local private sector’. Ke ne ke bona e ka ba contradiction mono. Ua bona mona moo ho entsoeng bold, this thing is positive. Ekare hothoe, ‘if the proposed project development is enough to warrant additional licence in terms of jobs to be created, value additional empowerment of the local private sector, the Minister may refuse to grant a licence’, ntle le haeba ha ke utloe hantle.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Joale u sheba karabo kae?
HON. SENATOR PROF N. RAPAPA: E-e, ke ne ke inahana. Ke e bale haholo?
“The Minister may, on the advice of narcotics bureau, refuse to grant a licence if the proposed project development impact is enough to warrant additional licence, in terms of jobs to be created, value addition of empowerment of the local private sector”.
Ha ke tsebe haeba kea utloahala. Ke hore ekare hothoe ha lintho tsena tse molemo li le teng kaofela Letona le ka hana ho fana ka licence.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, kapa u n’u batla koantsanyane? U s’u nts’u itse ba u rahisa tjoto, kahoo ke bona eka ha u sa ba tšepa hantle!
HON. S. SEKATLE: Che, ena ea bacha eona e otlolohile. Ehlile e tobile bacha, empa he, kae-kae kahar’a Bill ena ho nts’o etsoa deal le batho ka kakaretso ba tšoanelang ho ka fumana drugs tsena tsa mofuta ona.
Clause 10, eo re eang re e lebile e tla fihla e hlalosa, empa the greatest emphasis mona ke bacha bana. Ke eona taba ena eo ke mpang ke utloa le ‘na e sa ngoleha hantle, empa ha u e balisisa, Mohlomphehi Setho se Khabane, u tla utloisisa hore hothoe leha ho le joalo, o tšoanela a hlokomele the need to limit licences. Ke ho re le haeba lintho tsena tsohle li nepahetse, li bontša hore motho a ka fuoa licence, empa Letona le tšoanela ho hlokomela hore ho fana ka licence ho se ke hoa bolaea the entire industry. Ke hore le haeba u etsa qualify ka litsela tsohle, but overall – the bigger picture ke hore re etse protect the industry as a whole.
that is the understanding eo ke nang le eona, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Ke e hlalositse.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha, Motaung.
Ntate Mohale.
HON. SENATOR M.T. MOHALE: Kea leboha, hle, Motlatsi oa President, ‘me ke re ka ‘nete…
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Order! Ka mona ha ke bitsoe Motlatsi; ke Molula-Setulo.
HON. SENATOR M.T. MOHALE: Oo, banna! E leng hore ke tla u bitsa Molula-Setulo letsatsi lena kaofela.
Kea leboha, hle, Molula-Setulo.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Hafeela ke ntse ke lutse mona moo ke lutseng.
HON. SENATOR M. T. MOHALE: Kea leboha, hle, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Kea kholoa ke ne ke mpa ke tlatsa Morena oa ka oa Thaba hore ka ‘nete Sehlomathiso sena ke sebanteu. Ke ho re hona ke sebanteu, re le naha, ka letlotlohali lena leo re nang le lona.
Ha ke re ke sebanteu – che, ba sa se tsebeng ke hore feela re notla, kapa re sireletsa thepa ea sechaba molemong oa Basotho.
Ha ngata litaba tsena tsa botseteli re iphapanyetsa ho tla hatelloa ke batho ba tl’o tla ba tlola melao, e le batho ba tšoanang le rona, ‘me ka ‘nete re re hona ke sebanteu se tl’o tla se re sireletsa hore litaba tsa taolo ea lithethefatsi, kapa ea moriana ona, motho a bone hore le moo a tsoang teng o tla ‘ne a ikobele melao, hobane ho na le sebanteu kapa libanteu tse tl’o tla li sireletsa thepa ena.
Kea leboha.
MR. CHAIPERSON: Honourable Minister, u se ke ua re libanteu! Ke ‘sebanteu’.
Clauses 6 – 8: Put, agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 12 and 13.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Clause 12joalo ka ha Morena oa ka a hlalositse ehlile ke sebanteu hape. Ke e thusang haholo ho laola temo, ho laola ho etsa ho ntša maro ana le hona ho a rekisa(manufacturing) le hore na ha u rekisa thepa ena(distribution) o e entse distribute ka mokhoa ofe, ‘me e laola le batho hore ea ka tlolang litekanyetso tsena kapa tsela ena e laotsoeng, motho eo a fumanoe a le molato.
Ke ho re ehlile ke sebanteu se seholo, ha nka hlalosa, ‘me it is more about cultivation, production, manufacturing… ea maro ana a bophelo hore re loantše tekanyetso e lekaneng ka kakaretso.
Clause 13
Eona e ikamahantse haholo le ho hlabisa hlohlolingoane mona. It actually amends Section 45 of the Principal Law by adding inhalant drug of abuse, ‘me ke hore e kentse lentsoe lena hore ho kenyeletsoe hore tse ling o ka li tsuba joalo ka ha re ne re tsubisa lipere matekoane – u ka li etsa inhale, joalo-joalo. It controls that particular process.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Ke sisinya hore Clause 12 le 13 li eme e le karolo ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao.
Clauses 12 and 13: Put, agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 15 and 16.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Clause 15
Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane, Clause 15 ke e fanang ka matla le mesebetsi ea bureau. Ho tla ba le bureau, ‘me bureau ena e tšoanela e khethoe hantle. Ke hona moo Litho tse Khabane li tla tlameha hore li thuse Letona hore le khethe ka nepo batho bana ba bureau; ho se ke hoa khethoa feela baratuoa, kapa batho ba ‘Musong feela.
Ke ho re ehlile e bonahetse hore e kotsi, e tla ba kotsi haholo.
Clause ena e fana le hore na matla a bona ke afe, mesebetsi ea bona ke efe, ‘me mesebetsi ea bona e lokolisitsoe mono under the amentments, to propose Amendment on Section 59, hore ba etsa evaluate application, examine it and also do give any other relevant information, ‘me ba etse recommend to the Minister hore na ba bona eka a ka hlohonolofatsa, kapa a ka fana ka li-licence life.
Ke bothata bo makatsang hampe taba eno ea bureau, ha u ka e sheba. U tla fumana hore ehlile ha e sa laoloe hantle e baka likhathatso. Many a licences, as we speak, joalo ka ha Morena oa ka oa Thaba a bolela hore li ngata, most of those licences are actually illegal and also people are passing these licences to other people, which is not allowed, ‘me unfortunately batho b’a li reka. Batho ba li rekisa ha li felloa ke nako, mohlomong ho setse 2 months b’a e chipisa, hobane joale e turu hakere, b’a bona hore, ‘hell, Makhooa a ile, a neng a re tšehelitse nthong ena, ‘me ha re sa rekise ntho ena re tla lahleheloa ke chelete.
E leng hore batho ba bangata ba rekisang li-licence tsena are actually cheating those who are buying, hobane they are illegal lintho tsena tsa mofuta ona, joale bureau e tšoanela e be hlokolosi.
Ntho e ‘ngoe e kholo ea bureau ke hore e tsamaise khoebo ena, feela bothata bo boholo ke ho thehoa hoa fund. Ke tla tla mona Ntlong e Khabane hore ke tl’o teka tsamaiso ea fund. We need a proper fund ho tsamaisa khoebo ena, ho thusa khoebo ena hore e tataee and we need a big fund e tla tseba hore e thuse le ho hlahloba, e shebe le ‘ona masimo ana hore batho ha ba chitoe, ho shejoe le Marena ana mona hore, hela! Sechaba sa Basotho ha se jeoe ‘metoane!
Ke litaba tsena tsa thekiso, kapa temo ea mosebetsi ona.
Mosebetsi oa bureau ena o moholo haholo, ke hona ho etsa dinstil information, ba etse Letona hantle, ba se ke ba le saenisa feela, le eena Letona e se ke eaba where do I sign, eaba o ntse a fana ka li-licence.
Lintho tse etsahalang mane li ngata haholo, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Kea utloa hore li-licence tsena li qala ka mono ka ho ba li hlahlobang, li fetele ho bureau, li tle ho Letona.
At every stage, re tšoanela hape re be hlokolosi hore ho se ke hoa ba le batho ba jeloeng ‘metoane. Ho etsahalang hona tjena ehlile ho joalo, batho ba jeoa ‘metoane ho stake se seng le se seng; le sena sa ka sa ho saena le ‘na sea patalisoa. Joale u tla utloa hore e turu hofeta tse ling kaofela.
So, ke lintho tse kholo tseo bureau e tšoanelang e be on top of these things.
Ho na le litlaleho hape-hape tse re bolaeang hore Lesotho mona! Matona a ne a nkhalefetse maobane a re esale ke fihla ha e sebetse ntho ena mona ea matekoane. Joale ho na le litlaleho tsa bohlokoa tse tšoanelang ho fuoa Mokhatlo oa Lefatše oa lintho tsena, nako le nako, ‘me re elelletsoe hore ba bohlale ba bochabela ba ntse ba re ja ‘metoane mona, ba ntse ba etsa supply ka lebitso la rona re sa tsebe.
Bureau e tšoanela e be hlokolosi hore lintho tse kang tsena ha li etsahale, hobane we are given a contract joalo ka ha re boletse mane hore na what is the limit ea rona ea selemo sena. So, linthong tse kang tseno bureau e tšoanela ho re thusa haholo…
It would be ideal for the bureau ho thusa to advice the Minister to vary and revoke licences ha li sa sebetse, kapa ho sebetsoa ka bolotsana. Marena ‘ohle are supposed to be well-informed ka taba ena ea matekoane, e kholo haholo.
Che, ha se matekoane, but, ‘lithethefatsi’ tsena. Marena ‘ohle a tšoanela ho ba hlokolosi ho sireletsa sechaba; kantle le oa Bela-Bela, hobane o nts’a rekisa eane ea khale.
Ho kentsoe ho Bill ena taba ea bohlokoa haholo, hore bureau e tlamelloe hore e boloke litlaleho (keep records) hobane up to now, ha re tsebe li-record tsa eona. It is also a very critical mosebetsi oa bureau.
Bahlomphehi Litho tse Khabane, if you could see the paper we are saying is a licence, u tla bona hore it encourages corruption. You don’t make a certificate kapa licence ea 2 pages! How can you do that! The Minister signs on the second page and then ua e chencha u kenya lebitso la ka ha u fihla mane. So, your certificate must be 1 page and it must also have security features. Ke mosebetsi oa bureau ona.
E leng ho re Clause ena ke ea bohlokoa haholo.
Ke se ke rapelletse le Clause 16, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, e buang ka records; in particular hore the records must be kept ka tsela e nepahetseng, then the Minister of Health should actually prescribe the format in which these records must be kept, so that hase ntho e etsoang ka ho rata feela, le ho siea information e itseng, joalo-joalo.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphhehi. Ke ile ka re ke lula haholo mona, joalo ka ha Morena oa ka a itse ke hlalosetse Litho tse Khabane taba ena ea tsamaiso hore e tla ba bohlokoa. Hantle-ntle ke eona e re khinneng haholo feela. Batho ba bang ba ntse ba re, ‘hei, Letona! Ha u fane ka li-licence? Ha o etse joang…’ Ke re, ‘he, banna! Ntho ena e thata’. You need the legal and administrative aspects of business that are…conducive for the business.
So, ke bona bothata bo teng. So, the bureau is so critical.
Kea sisinya he, Mohlomphehi, hore Clause 15 le 16 li eme e la karolo ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao.
Question, that Clauses 15 and 16 stand part of the Bill, proposed.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Ke se ke ntse ke na le pelaelo – leha re sa thetse establishment ea narcotics, but Honourable Minister has tried, ‘me ke utloa eka o otlile teng ka hore ho tla ba le a bureau, ‘me e tla ba le batho bana ba talimehang hore o khethile professionals. – Because a Chief cannot be interpreted as a professional, joale ke ka hona ke mokhoa ona re siiloeng!
Homme re ile ra lumellana, ea ka rea utloana le Ramolao oa hao ‘M’e ‘Masello ha a tlile ho tla etsa taba ena hore e etsoe interrogate ke Legislation Committee hore ka ‘nete Borena bo lokela ho bapala role for the protection of people’s rights on their land. The manner in which those hawks – e leng bareki ba mobu kapa bahiri ba oona, should be regulated – and there should be a person or lekala le ka etsang oversee that. Re bile re hopotse hore mohlomong le Letona, kapa moemeli oa Letona la Puso ea Libaka will be present also in order to help mokhoa oa tsamaiso ea mobu on the issue ena eo re e bitsang (ha ke batle ho e bitsa matekoane), joale hoa bonahala hore… ke batla ke se ke ba bua ntho ena hampe.
Ntate Seretse Khama ha a tlile mona o ee a lumellane le Ntate Moshoeshoe II – ‘me ke bafu bobeli ba bona (meea ea bona e phomole ka khotso), hore e-e ke tla bua Setsoana ‘na ke le Moshoeshoe II, uena u qetelle u bua Sesotho. Joale ha a se a sa etsa joalo, joale ho bua Ntate Seretse o re, ‘Khosi ea moo Lesotho e ntsoile mo mosimeng’. Joale batho ba tšeha haholo. Joale le eena a re, ha ke itse hore na ho tseko’ang, hobane ka bona mosima ha ho tšoane le rona’.
Ka hona le rona mona re nka Ministry o re tsoile mosimeng, hobane we have agreed in principle ha re lutse mona hore involvement of the Pricipal Chief (of any other Chief, let me say, e se ke ea besale re ntse re re Principal Chief feela, but the Chief who can oversee the establishemt of this) ebe o e letsa the Minister le eena lintlheng tsa tsamaiso ea taba ea mobu – hobane ha ke bone the Ministry of Land e le teng. Ho bonahala ho khethiloe batho ba technical, ba buang Sekhooa, ba tla re hlola hore ebe ha re utloe letho, re kola mesi. Ka hona Letona le Khabane, I am lodging a complaint hore re tsoe bosoeleng bona, hobane if it was not like that, e ka be ele hore le rona, ke ho re Borena, ha rea tlameha ho pata hore re lokela e be re karolo ea this Bureau. This Bureau ehlile e lokela hore e fate bo-sechaba more than the foreign legends hobane ha re tsebe hore na e ka re etsetsa determination ho naha joang without us.
We have the Principal Chiefs in the law making body, therefore, we have haeba ho le joalo, le ka mona ba ne ba tlameha ba be teng, hobane ebile ele karolo e thehileng melao ka bo-eona.
Ka hona ke mpa ke soabile ho ithuta ketso eo ke e nkang ele very false, ka hore ebe ha rea kenya bosebeletsi bona. I must express also, hore leha e-ba re le teng ka mona, empa ho ka khethoa Morena e mong ea ka bang conversant ka litaba tsa mobu and the right of citizen to this land. Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi, ke lakatsa hore ke khobe Morena oa ka le Litho tse Khabane mats’oafo. Ke hlokometse, Morena oa ka hore ho na le provision ea hore the Principal Chief being a Member of College of Chiefs will be part of this Bureau, also Commissioner of Lands will be part of this Bureau. Taba ena eo Morena oa Thaba-Bosiu a buang ka eona e tla ba teng.
That is the most important Amendment that we have to do. Taba ena kaofela revolves around Morena. If so, it was unfortunate hore the Principal Law had left out batho ba laolang on the ground mobu le sechaba, le ho arola – hantle-ntle lithethefatsi tsena ho li etsa manufacture ho se ho ntse ho bonahala hore ho tla ts’oana le litaemaneng hantle. E leng hore re ts’oanela re be hlokolosi.
Marena oa ka a ithute Molao ona. Hantle-ntle re ntse re tla tla ho o kopela hore re o fetole hantle ele oa Lesotho e se ke ea ba oa Makhooa. Le tla hopola hore Molao ona ke oa khale haholo, ha re e-s’o kene ts’ebetsong ena. Re se re ntse re bona bofokoli ba oona.
Leha ho le joalo, ho khoba Morena oa ka mats’oafo le Ntlo e Khabane, Marena a tla kenella. E ne e ka ba thato ea rona hore Morena e mong le e mong sebakeng sa ha habo ho be joalo. Empa he, ha re na ho etsa joalo nakong ena, re tla etsa kamoso.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ha ke na le khang tabeng ena e ntseng e buuoa. Ke mpa ke re feela from my understanding ntle leha e-ba etlare ha re fihla teng, re boele re khutleleng teng. Ke rata hore re ke re shebe Clause 17 (60) (b)…
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Hon Senator. Order! Ha re s’o fihle mono.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Ke kopa u ntumelle ke itlhalose, ke qalile teng, Mohlomphehi. Ehlile u na le taba ea hore ebe ha u nkutloisise tjena! Ke qalile ka ho re ntle leha e-ba etlare ha re fihla teng, re khutleleng tabeng ena eo ke batlang ho bua ka eona. Ha u ka re ke e tlohelle, etle ere ha re fihla Clause 17 re boeleng mona moo re seng re fetile, I am fine.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Tsoela pele, Ntate.
Ke ne ke re Clause 17 ha ke e sheba mane moo e buang ka ‘removal from Office of a member of the Bureau’, (60)(B) (b) ha u se u ba a Member of Parliament, joale e ntlisa hore na ha u le Principal Chief joale u se u le ka har’a Bureau ka mane, ha e fihle e hanana le Temana ena. Ke eona feela ntho eo ke neng ke re re ke re e shebe.
HON. S. SEKATLE: It is not contradiction – it is the contradiction to those who do not understand how our roots, e tla ba contradiction. Morena oa Sehlooho leha a le ka mona ka Paramenteng, he or she is fine, but he or she also performs functions and duties tsa Borena tse otlolohileng. That is our understanding le ka taba ena. Re ts’oanela re bope Molao oa rona so that – ‘me re ntse re tla ho eona Temana eno ea 17, e tla hlalosa hore na, unless he or she is the Principal Chief nominated in terms of this Act.
It is a deliberate action by Parliament hore e kenyeletse Morena oa Sehlooho in his or her functions not as a Member of Parliament, but as a Member of the community and the one who is looking after land, traditional issues, inheritance le mesebetsi eohle ea hae,…
Ka letsatsi le leng ha re ka ea ka tsela ena e hlalosoang ke Setho se Khabane, kannete re tla qetella re re Marena a Sehlooho ha a lule Paramenteng mona, a se ke be a ea ahlola linyeoe metseng koana! We cannot follow that kind of approach.
It is a deliberate effort ea ho thusa hore tsamaiso ea rona, haholo-holo e ikamahanye le metso ea rona, setso sa rona re le Basotho. Ha ke tsebe haeba ke lekile ho araba taba ena e hlahisitsoeng ke Ntate Hloaele.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Letona le Khabane le re etlare ha re fihla Clause 17 re hlakoleng 60(B) (b). I am fine ha ho le joalo.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Mosebetsi oa ka ke ho sireletsa Setho se seng le se seng, including Letona le Khabane. Ha ho na moo Letona le Khabane le chulong joalo, Ntate Hloaele.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Kea leboha, ha ho le joalo, Ntate. Feela hee, contradiction eno e tla sala e le joalo, haeba e sa lokisoe eona. This is written!
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Letona le bonts’itse hore ehlile e ngotsoe ka sepheo le morero.
Clauses 15 and 16: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 17 and 18: Skipped pending Amendments
Clauses 19 and 20.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi le Litho tse Khabane, Temana ea 19 e mpa e lokolisa litsiane kapa allowances tse lokelang hore li etsoe ka Molao ho fa ba tla thusa Secretariat le Litho tsa Bureau. ‘Nete e salang re fumane hore ke bothata ha ho se na letsoainyana le ts’elloang batho hore ba sebetse.
Kannete ke ka nepo hase hobane ele batho ba ratang ho lefshoa. Ka nako e ‘ngoe mathata a teng a etsang hore ba se ke ba tla liphuthehong, ba sitisehe, mohlomong ke hona ho se fumane litsiane.
Re elelletsoe hore ke bothata ba kobo-ea-khomo hona joale hore Bureau e kopane. Taba eno e baka bothata bo boholo hore mosebetsi ona oa ho fana ka li-license le hona ho hlahloba, ba bang ba lokela hore ba itelle mosebetsi ona oa ho hlahloba, ho tsamaea hona lits’eng tsena tse tla thehoa ho sebetsa mosebetsi ona. Ho etsa joalo ke lintho tse batlang chelete.
Kannete Temana ena ea 19 e kopa hore ho be le litsianenyana tseo ba tla li fumana. Ho fihlela hona joale li ne li le sieo, ‘me taba eo e ne e baka sekhoqetsane se ts’abehang haholo mosebetsing.
Temana ea 20 ke e buang ka ho lokolla hore ho be le hona hore ho hlahlojoe, to investigate le ho hlahloba litaba hore re se ke ra tlola melao ts’ebetsong ena e kholo. E fana ka matla hore Letona le ka etsa lintho tse ngata, mohlomong he or she can freeze, confisticate lintho ha a bona ho na le bohlasoa bo itseng.
E leng ho re ke taba ea bohlokoa e neng e le sieo hore Letona le ka tseba ho etsa joalo. Joale ka ha u ka hlokomela, Mohlomphehi, khoebo ena leha Basotho ba re ke ea bona, joaloka ha ba bua ba re ba la le li-license, ka morao ho bona ke ba basoeu, ba bohlale haholo. Ka letsatsi le leng ba tla beha lintho tsena moo ke ho re leha ho se ho le hobe, ebe ba se ba tsoa ka la pholo-khoaba.
Joale Letona should be able to freeze assets tsena, a thuse ba teng mona ka har’a naha hore ba lefshoe, le bona the partners li fumane something, eseng moo u fumanang batho ba se ba le sieo, ba nyametse ka la hosane.
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, ka boikokobetso, ke sisinya hore Litemana tsena li eme ele Karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Clauses 19 and 20: Question, that Clauses 19 and 20 stand part of the Bill, proposed.
HON. SENATOR PROF. N. RAPAPA: Kea leboha, Ntate. Kannete ke ts’ehetsa litaba tsena tse qetang ho behoa ke Letona le Khabane, haholo-holo ena eo batho ha ba ea liphuthehong tsa li-Board kapa tsa Council, ho ne ho na le leano la ‘Muso le reng ha u le Mohlanka oa ‘Muso u se ke ua fuoa allowance.
Joale ha u sheba ha u ile liphuthehong tseno, u fumane Director ea ‘Muso e le teng mono, joale Chief Executive ea company eno le eona e le teng mono. Ha u sheba Chief Executive ena le Mohlanka enoa oa ‘Muso, enoa oa ‘Muso mane moo a sebetsang teng, o se a ntse a lefshoa 20 lisente, empa enoa eena o lefshoa R1, joale ha a fihla mane o fuoa sitting allowance, enoa oa ‘Muso o khutla a se na letho. Ke ho re u ne u bona batho ba beuoeng hore ba hlaole ts’imo feela e mong a feptjoe lijo e mong eena e be ha a feptjoe letho. Joale ene ele bothata hore na ba sebetsa joang.
Kannete ke ts’ehetsa Temana ena, e se eka Letona le Khabane le ho ba bang le ka eletsa hore ba tle ba etse phetoho eno, hobane e etsa batho ba morolo, ba sebetsang. Taba eno e ne e le bolutu haholo, ke ne ke sa e rata ‘na, e ne e se makhethe, e ne e se ntle.
Clauses 19 and 20: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Letona le Khabane, re fetela karolong ea Litemana tse neng li na le lihlomathiso. Re tla qala ka Temana ea Bobeli. U tle u e akaretse, e batla e le teletsana eona.
Clause 2.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo le Ntlo e Khabane, Temana ena ke e hlalosang mantsoe. Bothata ba Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao e ne e le hore mantsoe a mang joale a ne a sa hlalosoa hantle le hona ho qolloa ka bo-mong ba ‘ona. Lentsoe le kang ‘dealer’ le ne le sa hlalosoa hantle ka botlalo. Tlhaloso e ne e felletse hona mono ‘semokolareng’ feela, empa joale tlhaloso e le ngata e hlalosang lentsoe leno. Can be e company, can be a partnership, sole trader or a corporation.
E kholo-kholo haholo ke eona taba eno ea ho hlalosa ‘drug of abuse’. U tla hopola, Mohlomphehi, hore ho ne ho entsoe specify a miracle aspect ea eona kapa limited time of drug of abuse. Empa joale ho fumanehile hore li ngata lintho tsena.
Ho feta mono ho hlalosoa mantsoe a kang ‘hemp’ le a mang. ‘Hemp’ ekare ke e na e sa taheng haholo e re thusang bophelong, ha e le ena e ‘ngoe ehlile e re isa holimo koana, re nyakalla haholo, joalo-joalo. Ke eona tlhaloso ea mantsoe.
Ka mantsoe ana, ke sisinya hore Temana ena e eme e le Karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Clause 2: Question, that Clause 2 stand part of the Bill, proposed.
HON. SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ke ne ke batla ho botsa Letona le Khabane hore na drug of abuse ee – matekoane aa a haeso a tloaelehileng a kenelletse moo, le ‘ona re se re a lema ka molao kapa ‘ona a tla lokisetsoa neng?
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Letona le Khabane, ke belaela hore Morena oa ka oa Mokhotlong o ronngoe ke Ntate Peete! Che! Ha ho na khang.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Che, ha ke hopole a na le likoti tse nepahetseng tsa ho lema. Leha ho le joalo, ehlile Morena oa ka the new definition actually is broad, e thusa hore re tle re hapelloe – litlama-tlama tsohle le tseo re neng re e-s’o li fumane hore li ka thusa. When research thus provides more knowledge ea hore drug ena e ka tseba ho sebelisoa sebakeng sa hore e be setlhare, e be moriana, re tsebe ho e kenyeletsa mono.
Unlike recently ha ho ne ho etsoa define cannabis feela as such. So, when the time comes, eona ena ea rona e bitsoang khomo-ea-fats’e ho ntse ho fumanehile hore e ntle haholo, ele hore e na le li-properties tse ntle haholo, tse tla re thusa ha re ntse re ea pele. Empa ho na le tse ling, ke ne ke qala ho utloa hore khoaea-khoaeane ke setlhare se seholo, se thethefatsang bohloko.
Amendment to Clause 2.
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Lebitsong la Molula-Setulo oa Komiti ena ea Legislation le eona Komiti eno ea haeso, re sisinya hore Clause 2 mona ho be le liphetoho tse latelang: Clause 2 (a) mono moo ho hlalosoang ‘dealer’ in line one. Ka mor’a lentsoe ‘person’, re sisinya hore ho hlakoloe ‘engaged’ le nkeloe sebaka ke ‘registered and licensed to engage’. Mabaka a rona Mohlomphehi ke hore re ke ke ra re ‘a dealer is a person engaged’, empa a se ‘registered and licenced’ hobane ho bolela hore e mong le e mong le ea seng registered le ea seng licenced ha feela a kene kahar’a khoebo ena re tla be re mo nka e le dealer, joale e tla baka poqa-futsoela e ts’abehang.
E tla thatafaletsa Lekala la Bophelo ka tsela e khethehileng. Le bane ba lelekisang taba tsa phethahatso kapa boikamahanyo le Melao, ba tla imeloa haholo. Le ona Makhotla a tla imeloa haholo ha litaba li fihla hobane re tla be re butse phenyenye hore e mong le e mong ea sebetsanang le khoebo eno le ka tsela tse seng Molaong, ebe o sebetsana le eona.
Ke ka lebaka lena re sisinyang hore re kenye mantsoe ‘registered and licenced to engage’.
Ke kopa hore ke hle ke nke Clause ena kaofela, Mohlomphehi.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Ke ne ke kopile joalo ka lebaka la botelele ba eona.
HON SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula Setulo.
Ho ena ea Clause 2 (a) re sisintse hore ka pele ho lentsoe ‘hemp’ ho kenyoe lentsoe ‘medical’. Lebaka ke hore re ka hare ho ‘’a medical industry’’ mona. Re ka hare ho litaba tse sebetsanang le litaba tsa medicine. Ho bohlokoa hore re se ke be ra etsa li assumption tsa hore ha re qala re bua ka lentsoe ‘hemp’ re bua ka ‘medical hemp’, so re bone ho le bohlokoa hore re etse qualify lentsoe lena ‘hemp’.
Ha ke fetela Clause 2 (a) mona moo ho buuang ka THC.
Re boetse re sisinya hape, Ntate Molula-Setulo, hore abbreviation eno THC e ke e hlalosoe ka mokhoa o batlang o tebile oa hore, it means Tetraydrocannabinol as a psychoactive compound extracted from cannabis. E se ke ea beoa ka tsela eno e leng hore e beuoe ka eona mono, hobane re nka eka ekare e tla thatafalla a layman, e tla thatafalla batho feela.
So re bona ho le bohlokoa hore re e qhaqholle ka tsela e leng hore even an ordinary person can be able to digest it. A e utloisise e le hore a tle a tsebe ho e sebelisa hobane kutloisiso eno e bohlokoa haholo, ha ele teng e tla sebelisoa habonolo.
Ts’its’inyo ea ho qetela Ntate Molula-Setulo hona Clause 2 mono, ke ea hore qetellong ea 2 (a) mono re hapelle kapa re kenyeletse mantsoe a mang a mabeli, re seke be ra a nka for granted. Le ona a kenelle a be le tlhaloso, a be karolo ea interpretation kapa definition of terms. Mantsoe ano re na le ao re reng a tle a bolele a person registered as such under the medicine land and herbs Act ea 1978.
Ho na le lentsoe ‘’nurse’’. Rea tseba lentsoe ‘’nurse’’ke lentsoe le tloaelehileng haholo, leo le lona re ka le nkang for granted. Joale empa re bone ho le bohlokoa hore e seke eaba anybody else. Re hlalose hore ‘nurse is a person registered as such under the Nurses and Midwife Act of 1998,’ ho qoba hore motho e mong le e mong a tle a ipitse nurse, Mohlomphehi.
Kea sisinya, Ntate.
Clause 2 as Amended: Question, that Clause 2 as amended stand part of the Bill, proposed
HON SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Ke ne ke se ke le theotse ke utloile u bua ntho ea bohlokoa. Ke ne ke re feela lintlha tsena tse hlalositsoeng mona li hlakile hoo ke lumellanang le uena ha une u se u beha taba. U ile ua lieha ho bua nka be ke u tlohetse.
Clause 2 as amended: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Ke lahlehile. Hana u batla ke re’ng joale?
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Akere ua hopola hore re ne re ile ra e tlola?
HON. S. SEKATLE: E, re ne re ile ra e tlola.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: E, joale ua e hlalosa hona joale.
Clause 3.
HON S. SEKATLE: Clause 3, Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane. Ke ile ka hlalosa hore ehlileng e hlalosang litaba tsa… e etsa amend litaba tsa Section 9 of the Principal Act. E hlalosoa e kenyeletsa hore ho kenelle le other drugs of abuse. ‘me e etsa hore joaloka Morena oa ka oa Mokhotlong a ile a hlalosa kapa a botsa ka setlama-tlama se seng,, se tseba ho kenyeletsa some of these litlama-tlama tseo re nang le tsona mona Lesotho.
Hape e re thusa hore re hlalose re ekeletse lits’ebetso tse ka etsoang ka these drugs of abuse.
Principal Law was limited ka hore e ne e ipuela mohlomong ka captivate and probably manufacturing. This time around we are providing for… to buy, to distribute; we are talking about the market, mechanism ea taba eno.
We are also talking about possibilities tsa hore people can also venture into other activities such as labs. Moo ba ka thehang li lab tse ka hlahlobang lintho tseno.
E leng ho re ke mosebetsi o batsi haholo. E mong a ka ‘na a lema a fella ho lemeng moo a tlisa ho a manufacturer. E mong a ka shebana le hore feela a hlahlobe thepa ena ea batho bana hore na ke eona is it up to standard in terms of the laboratory requirement.
E mong a ka thoma hore a etse transport kapa a tsamaise li-drug tsena ho fapana le hore the whole manufacturer kapa the whole cultivator o nka ntho ena kaofela.
U tla elelloa, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, hore joale e ka khaoloa ea fa batho ba bangata mosebetsi. It is the whole chain e ka fang batho mosebetsi. E ntse e ts’oana le tourism as we see today where you would have motho oa hotele, motho ea hlalosetsang batho hore na o tla bona eng, o bone eng Lesotho joalo-joalo.
Le eona ena ka mokhoa o ts’oanang it is a very important Clause e tla thusa hore re name joale. Le batho ba kene moo ba ka khonang teng eseng hore e be master of everything.
E boetse leha ho le joalo, ke ba sa tsebeng hore lithethefatsi tsena re ne re se ntse re li sebelisa rona liphoofolong. Mona ba ntlhalosetsa hore Clause 3 e thusa hape re etse extend ts’ebeliso ea litlhare tsena ho liphoofolo, empa ua tseba uena, Ntate Molula-Setulo, hore ha esale re sebelisa lithethefatsi kapa meriana ena liphoofolong. Lipere ha esale re li tsubisa matekoane. Ha li ts’oeroe ke papisi re sebelisa matekoane joalo-joalo.
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, kea sisinya hore Clause 3 e eme e le Karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Clause 3: Question, that clause 3 stand part of the bill, proposed.
HON SENATOR L.M SEEISO: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Ke ne ke botsa Letona le Khabane hore ke bona Clause 3 e re ‘a person is prohibited from…’ e mo hanela ho lema. Ke khutlela mane moo Letona le itseng ka’nete ha ke itemela lihlahlanyana tsa ka tse peli, tse tharo Molao o tl’o etsa hore… kapa ke re South African Law ke bona eka e lumelletse a certain amount eo ho thoeng ke a personal consumption?
Sets’oants’o see sa Molao se lumella hore ha ke itemela a mabeli, a mararo, is there provision hore ehlile likhomo tsa ka ke li phekola ka matekoane, ‘me ke hloka lihlahla tse peli, tse tharo tse tla ba teng?
Are you sure hore ho na le hore e mpolaee?
HON. S. SEKATLE: Ka uena, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, Morena oa ka eena o ts’oanela hore a utloisise hore khomo-ea-fats’e le tse ling litlama-tlama tse s’o kenelle mona Minister o tla li hlohlolla ha li ntse li kenella mona. A se ke a itemela lihlahla ka mokhoa oo a ratang kateng. Li tla tla joalo-joalo. Hona joale re ntse re tl’o kenya khoaeane, e tla fihla e kena kahar’a Molao ka li-Regulations joaloka khomo-ea-fats’e, le eona e tla tla e kena ka li-Regulations ha e se e hlahlubuoe hantle.
Amendment to Clause 3.
HON SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Lebitsong la Komiti ea haeso ke ne ke sisinya hore Clause 3(a) (1) (b) moleng oa boleli ka morao ho lentsoe ‘person,’ re hlakole lentsoe “or”. Lebaka, Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane ke hobane lentsoe leno le kentsoeng mono ‘’or’’ le sotha karoloana eno ea Molao, ‘me ebe e e lahlisa moelelo, le etsa hore ho be boimanyana ho khetholla B le A, ‘me ho tlosa ‘or’ ho tla tla ho fa karolo eno relevance le hore e balehe hantle le hore e hlake hantle.
Kea sisinya, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Clause 3 as amended: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill
Clause 5.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo le Litho tse Khabane tsa Ntlo, Clause 5 boholo ba eona e mpa e ekelitse lintho tseo Minister a ka li shebang hore a fe motho licence. Mohlomong ha e le company a shebe boemo ba bona as directors of the company, Secretary of Company, Chief Executive of Company, hore na ha a na litlolo tsa molao tse ling kapa ha a boemong boo a belaelloang ka ho tlola molao ka tsela tse ling haholo-holo tse amanang le hona ho hoeba ka litlhare tsena tsa mofuta ona ntle le tumello.
Hape e thusa hore Minister a ka hlahloba feela hore na motho enoa le licence ena eo a e hlokang na e tla thusa hore a atolose ho etsa litlhare tsena ‘me a fane ka supply e nepahetseng e sa khaoheng nako le nako joalo-joalo.
E ‘ngoe e kholo ke hore Minister a ka tseba hore a hlahlobe haholo joale hore na ke bafe batho ba experienced.
Clause 5 e thusa haholo ho Minister hore a ka hlahloba other criteria tseo a ka li sebelisang to issue licences.
Mohlomphehi, ke sisinya hore Clause 5 e eme e le Karolo ea Sents’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Amendment to Clause 5.
HON SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Ntate-Molula Setulo.
Mona Clause 5 Ntate Molula-Setulo, (a) line 3, re le Komiti re sisinya hore kamor’a lentsoe ‘convicted’ re hlakole comma, e nkeloe sebaka ke lentsoe or.
Taba eno ha e qala e ntse cho joalo e tl’o bolela hore re tla be re shebana le batho ba convicted kapa bao e leng hore they are charged. ‘Me ts’itsinyo e ‘ngoe not anybody else re shebana feela le batho ba seng ba le already convicted kapa batho bao e leng hore they are already charged ka taba eno eo ho buuang ka eona mona.
Re boetse hape re sisinya hore hona Clause eno Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane hore kamor’a lentsoe charged, re hlakole mantsoe ano a mabeli a hlahang ka morao e leng or suspected.
Re nolofatsa kabo ea toka mona ka ho etsa joalo Ntate Molula-Setulo hobane re ke be ra etsa deal kapa eaba ho tl’o tla ho lelekisoa batho ba belaelloang. Re re taba ena ea batho ba lelekisosang ebe batho ba convicted kapa batho bao u tl’o tla sebetsana le bona mona ebe batho ba already convicted kapa batho bao eleng hore they are being charged.
E seke eaba joale Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se sebetsana le batho ba belaellaong hobane hee batho ba pepisoa lithokolosi hae mona Ntate. O sa tsebe letho ebe kaha o pepisitsoe thokolosi ebe Molao ona o se o sebetsana le uena.
Mohlala ho ka tloha hoa thoe batho ba fihla ba fana ka hore ba u belaella hore u na le lithunya Pitseng mane. Joale ebe u se u il’o lelekisoa ka taba eno ea hore u na le lithunya ebe u se u ameha. Ke mpa ke etsa mohlala feela.
E leng ho re re mpa re bebofatsa kabo ea toka hore ho seke be hoa sebetsanoa le the suspected people. Ho sebetsanoe feela le the convicted and the charged
Kea sisinya Mohlomphehi hore Temana ena e eme e le karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Clause 5 as amended: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 9 – 11.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi Molula-setulo le Litho tse Khabane, Clause 9 ke e thusang hore ho be le khoebisano. Khoebisano e pharalle haholo lipakeng tsa one operator le Lekala la Bophelo,kapa lipakeng tsa operator le another manufacturer kapa a cultivator le manufacturer le a licenced dealer kapa a pharmacist le a pharmacy wholesaler joalo joalo. Ke eona e lumellang hore ho be joalo. Hona ke Clause e ntle haholo ho pharalatsa hore khoebong ena re hoebisane. Ba tsebang haholo ka tse itseng ba tsebe hore ba etse supply ba itseng joalo joalo.Lipakeng tsa pharmacist le lipetlele joalojoalo.
‘Me li product tse etsoang ka litlhare tsena li tsebe hore li khoebisane within the country, e seng only outside the country. Ke Moelelo o moholo oa Clause 9.
Clause 10 ke e bonts’ang hore na joale ka ha Setho se Khabane Professor Rapapa a ne a botsa ka bana. This is a Clause now that deals with the general people ea hore na who should hold or use or possess the drugs of abuse. Hoa bonts’oa mono ho re na if it is prescribed, it is a prescription, only if it is a medical health practitioner, who is a health care practitioner, an employee ea lab, an operator or a transport operator.
E lokolisa hantle hore na joale ke bo mang bao e leng hore_ e bo e la e arabela ka kotloloho taba eane eo Honourable Professor Rapapa a neng a e botsa ka bana, joale ke re ho na le e pharaletseng e tla arabela sechaba ka kakaretso.
CLAUSE 11
E kenyeletsa hore motho ea kenang tšebetsong ena a be le tsela e ka lateloang ho bona hore o sebetsa joang, a proper register, moo e ka tsebang ho hlahlojoa, ho be le track record, ho be le something that can be traced hore o qalile mona, a fella mona, o entse extract maro a itseng, hoa senyeha a makana, eaba ho etsahala tjena hobane kaofela lintho tseo, whatever you produce, you have to record, whatever is destroyed or damaged le eona has to be on record.
It will be a must hore ho be le record e ntle haholo, e le hore re tsebe to control construction ea litlhare tsena hobane ha ho se joalo re tla fumana tse ling li se li ntse li fetela ho bana, li fetela ho batho ba sa nepahalang ba masholu, joalo joalo, so we will now have proves, a record e tla ba traced hore na ho sebelitsoe joang.
Re tla tseba hore na quantity e kana e entsoe cultivated kapa e lenngoeng e ntšitse lero le le kae, na e feela lero leo le fumane tsela ea lona in to the market kapa ho na le tse ling tse senyehileng joalo-joalo, li bohlokoa hahalo particularly for international trade.
Kea sisinya hore Clause 9-11 li eme e le karolo ea Setšoantso sena sa Molao.
Question that Clauses 9-11 stand part of the Billand, proposed.
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Komiti ea haeso e sisinya hore ho be le Lihlomathiso tse latelang, Ntate Molula-Setulo, Clauses 9-11 starting with Clause 9.
Clause 9 (1a) (e) after “a” insert ‘’licensed’’
Ntate le Litho tse Khabane, we have to be very consistent. U tla hlokomela hore ho tloha mane ho (a) re bua ka license, ho tla mona ho (c) re bua ka licenced manufactured,
(d) mona re bua ka licenced dealer
(e) a pharmacy wholesaler ha re sa bua ka taba ea hore a be licensed, ‘me kutloisiso ke hore ha re qala re etsa joalo re bula phenyenye ea hore a tle a re eena ka hare ho Setšoantšo sena sa Molao ha hoa thoe a be licensed, ‘me a ka itšebeletsa feela joalo re re le eena re qobelle hore a be licensed.
Le tla hlokomela hore motho eo re mo tlotseng kapa organisation eo re e tlotseng ke Lekala la Bophelo e leng lona Authority e fanang ka li license. But all this others tse hlahang ka hare ho Clause ena re lokela ho maintainer consistence, not only to maintain consistency but also ho thibela ba bang hore ba tlo operator without being licensed.
Ke fetele ho Clause 9 (1)(b) moo re sisinyang hore re hlakole the whole provision ea Clause 9(1)(d) re e hlakole kaofela e be re etsa edit mantsoe a latelang:
“a dealer may supply a drug of abuse product in a suitable form approved by the Minister to:
(a) a pharmacist
(b) a hospital with a valid requisition
(c) a herbalist and; and
(d) a medical doctor
Provided he is registered and licensed to deal with drugs of abuse.”
E leng hore we refer to batho bana ba listed from a up to d, phapano kapa phetoho e teng mona, Ntate le Litho tse Khabane, ke hore u tla hlokomela hore provision eane ea pele e ne e bua ka pharmacists fela empa Komiti ea haeso e sisinya hore ho kenyeletsoe li-Stakeholder tse ncha hoping hore li bohlokoa haholo in this industry, e leng a herbalist and a medical doctor, hore le bona ba hapelloe ba se ke ba behelloa ka thoko provided ba registered and licensed.
Ha re ka ba siea, li ofisiri Ofising mane mo Letona a tla be a le sieo ka li Ofising tsa bona, hei! Ba rata ho tlotlisa, ba tla ba tlotlisa ba re tsoa mo sheba Setšoantšo sena sa Molao ha se hlahe ka hare ho Molao, joale e be ha ba re sebeletse, so is very important to protect batho bano bao e leng hore they are in this business.
Ke fetele Clause 10, 28(a) line, 1 after the words “shall be’’ insert words “registered and licensed and shall be’’.
Taba ena ea registered and licensed e bohlokoa haholo ho qoba hore re kene kahara business e kotsi kapa industry e kotsi haholo eo re ke keng ra lumella everybody to operate a se registered le hona ho fuoa licence. Ka tumello ea hao, Mohlomphehi, ke kopa ke fete.
Clause 11 Komiti ea haeso e sisinyang hore ho etsoe insert a new Sub-clause that provides as follows:
“(8)” a medical practitioner, a pharmacy, a nurse, a herbalist and a hospital shall keep and maintain a system that record the prescription and sale of a drug of abuse and make it available to the Bureau’’.
Ke mane moo Mohlomphehi Letona a buileng ka taba ea track record, re le Komiti re mpa re re re matlafatse le ho nontša taba eo hore re kate likoti tse ka bang teng tabeng ea ho boloka li-record tsa sesebelisoa sena se tla be se sebelisoa moo.
Ka mantsoe ana Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane, lebitsong la Komiti ea haeso re ne re sisinya hore Lihlomathiso tsena li eme e le karolo ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao.
Question that Clauses 9-11 as amented , stand part of the Bill,and proposed.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi, ke amohela Lihlomathiso tsena tse tiisang Molao ona, mohlomong taba e kholo ke hoba le kutloisiso e otlolohileng hantle haholo ho Clause 9 moo ho thoeng ‘provide a registered licensed to deal with Drugs of Abuse’’ that requirement would dictate hore batho bana ba register habeli.
Registering under this Act and also under their professions is that the understanding is that not demanding too much from them because as they register under separate associations ba ikana ka lintho tse amanang le litlhare haholo but do we require them to specifically register under for drugs to deal with drugs, they are not particularly, they are registered general to deal with litlhare not drugs as such.
ke bona bothata bo teng ho Clause 9 that Amendment if it was saying provided they are registered and licensed and it stops them then re ne re tla e utloisisa ha bobebe, but ha e se e re deal with Drugs of Abuse then it’s a special requirements e tla batla hore a pharmacist by nature register under the Medical Dental Pharmaceutical Act e leng eona e ba etsang register.
Nurses ka mokhoa o tšoanang le li ngaka li etsa register under a particular associations, ‘me ho na le licouncil tse ba etsang register, so e ka etsahalang, which means they will be required to register and also register to deal with Drugs of Abuse.
Ha ke tsebe hore na Komiti e Khabane, e ka re thusa joang to eradicate possible prostatic requirements tse ka etsang hore khoebo ena e fokole kapa likhoqetsane tse tla etsa hore phamacists, doctors as well li se ke tsa register, do they need to register, no they do not.
HON. SENATOR. T. MOHALE: Kea leboha Ntate.
Ke le Setho sa Komiti, ke ne ke mpa ke re ke behe ka pele ho Letona hore kea kholoa tšoenyeho eo ea rona Ntate, e ile ea bakoa ke hore ka hare ho naha ka mona re nale li pharmacists tse ngata tseo tšabo ea rona e leng hore in terms of regulations, tšabo ea rona e neng e le hore taba tsa registrations tsa tsona tse ling li ne li sa hlaka, ‘me tšabo e le hore na thepa e bohlokoa hakana ha e ka fihla matsohong a fosahetseng e tlaba kotsi ho sechaba.
Taba eo e ne e etsoa ke tšabo ea lintho tseo re li bonang tsa li pharmacy wholesalers tseo litaba tsa teng li seng registered, ‘me kea kholoa Ntate u tla re hlalosetsa hore na in terms of regulation taba ea lipharmacy tseo li sebetsoa joang.
Kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha Ntate Molula-Setulo.
ho tlatsetsa holima litaba tse buuoeng ke Morena oa ka oa Tajane, ke ne ke re rona kutloisiso ea rona ke hore when you get registered, you also have to be licenced. Hoba registered without being licensed re utloa e le mosebetsi o incomplete, ke hore na what are you registered to do?
You can register fela o le setho sa association and then ha o le registered fela re utloa eka its much more important that registration means you are also licensed to operate, ‘me re utloa e ka ke litaba tse tsamaeang ‘moho.
Tabeng ena eo Mohlomphehi Letona a nang le ngongoreho ka eona ea to deal with Drugs of Abuse re utloa e ka batho le li company tsena tse leng hore liregister in this industry, this is a drug of abuse industry kapa industry e sebetsang le drugs of abuse, ‘me re utloa e ka mohlomong concern ea hae ha a bone ho hlokahala ho kenya mantsoe drug of abuse hobane we are already dealing with drug of abuse, mohlomong u utloa e ka u no u tla etsa li license tsa bona, kutloisiso ea rona ke hore we are dealing with drugs of abuse here and ke ka lebaka leo re fumanang ho le much more important hore re bontše hore mona ka hare ho Molao ona we are dealing with drugs of abuse, kea bona o tsoile Ntate Minister, joale ha ke tsebe o tla utloisisa litaba tsena joang.
Ho ‘na, they are not too different issues ke lintho tse tsamaeang ‘moho ebile lia neheletsana, ke sitoa ho utloisisa hore you can get registered in a particular industry joale e be you are not licensed to operate, kutloisiso ea ka ke hore ke lintho tse peli tse tsamaeang ‘moho and ha qeta ho ba registered o fuoa nomoro and also get a license.
CHAIRPERSON: Ntate rea leboha.
Litho tsa Komiti ha ra lintho tseo ba li hlahisang ke hore tšabo ke hore ho se ho na le palo e ngata haholo ea liPharmacy if mohlomong ha ho boletsoe hore na moriana ona o hlokolosi ha kae kutloisiso ea bona e ne e le hore ho na le litsela tse lokelang hore li lateloe hore ele ho sireletsa hore ho se ke hoa u oa koana le koana, motho e mong le e mong a se ke a ba le access ho bona.
Le hosane ha ke ba le just a fly by night Pharmacy e be ke ba le access to this drug ho boletsoe boleng ba eona le lintho tse ling, tšabo e ne e le hona mono. Kutloisiso ea Komiti ke hore mohlomong ha re ngolisitse under a particular association, being a nurse or a doctor, ke hore you need to get a license ho etsa lintho. Kutloisiso ea Komiti e ne e le hore lintho tseo li lokela ho tsamaea ‘moho, meaning o lokela ho register and then be licenced, does not mean automatically once your registered, you are already acquired the license to use or to apply for the drug, that was the understanding ea Komiti.
Ha ke tsebe haeba ke le tolokile hantle Litho tse Khabane, kea leboha.
Question that clauses 9-11 as amented put and agreed to.
CLAUSE 14
HON S. SEKATLE: Kea leboha.
Re ne re se re ile ra e tšohla-tšohla nakong eo Morena oa Thaba-Bosiu a neng a khathatsehile haholo ke taba ea batho ba teng in the Bureau, e leng hore it was establish Bureau, ‘me e thusa hape hore Minister a ka thusa Bureau hore e ka mema litsebi ka mokhoa o ka bang ka teng fela hore li tlo ba teng le hoja li ke ke tsa khetha.
E hlalosa hape hore motho eo ho thoeng ke coordinator ea sector e ncha e tla ba lehlakoreng le leng e tla ba sectarian to the Bureau, ‘me ea hlalosa hape hore litho sa Bureau li ka tseba ho ikhethela motlatsi, le ho ba molula-setulo oa Bureau. Hantle boholo ba eona kapa the thrust ea Clause ena ke ho theha the narcotic Bureau, kea sisinya Mohlomphehi.
Question that Cclause 14 as amented stand part of the Bill, put and agreed to.
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Komiti ea haeso ea Legislation e na le litšisinyo tse latelang mona Clause 14 Mohlomphehi le Litho tse Khabane. Ke hore Clause 14 (1)(a)(ii)(2)(c) re hlakole “Head of Pharmaceutical Services from the Ministry of Health”, ebe e nkeloa sebaka ke “The Specialist in Pharmacology from Medical, Dental or Pharmacy Council”. Lebaka la rona la ho etsa phetoho ena Mohlomphehi, ke hore re se ke ra koalla boemeli bona to a particular individual or to a particular person, e leng Head of Pharmaceutical Services from the Ministry of Health ea bileng a tsoang ka hare ho Lekala. Re e bule hore as long as e le specialist ho tsoa litabeng tsena tsa pharmacy, hore na o tsoa ho kae, hafeela a le recognised ke li-authority tsa Lekala a be le monyetla oa ho emela mona. Rea e bula hore e tle e se ke ea thatafatsa nakong eo e leng hore the Head of Pharmaceutical Services ha a fumanehe.
Ts’isinyo ea bobeli eo re e etsang, Mohlomphehi, mono Clause 14 (1)(ii)(d) re sisinya hore ho hlakoloe lentsoe “Director” le nkeloe sebaka ke “Head of”, e leng ho re e tla ba “Head of Mental Health from the Ministry of Health, ‘me le leng la mabaka ana ha a kena a bolela kaofela feela ke mpa ke re, le leng la mabaka a etsang hore re etse ts’isinyo ena, is to maintain consistency tseleng eo re ahang li-clause ka eona. Ho se ke hoa fumanoa hore re entse poqa-futsoela feela, kae-kae re bua ka “Director” ebe kae-kae re bua ka ‘Head of Department’ yet re bua ka ofisi e le ‘ngoe kapa re bua ka motho a le mong. Re bone ho le bohlokoa hore re etse maintain that consistency. O tla hlokomela hore ho buuoa ka “Head of Legal Services.”
Mohlomong ho akaretsa litaba tsena, Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane, ke hore re hle re hlalose hore to maintain consistency in a manner of writing clauses ehlile re sisinya re le Komiti hore o se ka fumana hore ka hare ho clause e ts’oanang re sebelisitse Director kae-kae re sebelisitse Head. Re etse maintain consistency ea hore re sebelise one word, ‘me re ile ra bona eka ho sebelisa lentsoe “Head” is much more convinced hobane le kamoso ha ho fetoloa molao ho se ho thoe motho enoa eo ho thoeng ke Director ha e sa le Director o se a bitsoa Director General, o tla ‘ne a etsa fit ho ke ke hoa tlameha hore u tle mona Paramenteng u re u tlo tla u fetola lentsoe “Director”, u se u kenya lentsoe “Director General” or u se u kenya “Chief mang mang” a se a fetotse lebitso a se a bitsoa “Chief mang mang”.
E leng ho re re ne re re taba eno ea mabitso, re e etse ka tsela eo e leng hore lekala ha le na ho iphumana le le tsietsing hore nako ena kaofela, ha ho fetoloa mabitso a li-position ka hare ho Makala, o fumane Lekala le tlameha ho tla Paramenteng ka ntho e nyane hakaalo hore re tlo tla re e lokisa. Tsela eo re etsang ka eona, ha ho na mohlang le tla tla le tlo re re lokise. Lekala le free hore le ka etsa liphetoho, la chencha mabitso a li-position at any time. Ha ho na mohlang le tla iphumana le tlile koano hore le tlo tla le fetola Molao, empa ha ho sa etsahala joalo it will be very difficult ho na le moo taba eno e tla ba bakela li-complication hona teng. Ke ka lebaka lena re entseng joalo ho (d), (g) le (h), Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane.
Ka ntle ho liphetoho tsena, liphetoho tse ling tseo re li khothalelitseng re le Komiti ke hore, re kenyeletse li-stakeholder tse ling ka har’a Bill, e leng ho tloha ho (i), (j), (k) (l) and (n) e-be new stakeholders. Lebaka la rona la ho etsa joalo re ne re ile ra hlokomela hore composition e ea ho the Bureau, e batla e nkile makala a ‘Muso feela, ‘me re re no this is an industry eo e leng hore Lekala la ‘Muso ha se lona feela the major stakeholder. We need to open up to other stakeholders outside Government. Joale le bona ba be le boemeli ka hare ho the Bureau. Re ile ra bona ho le bohlokoa joale re ile ra re, a-e ka ’nete clause eno ho tloha ho (i) hofihlela ho (n), ebe tse bulelang boemeli ba mafapha a mang kapa li-organisation tse ling tse amehang ka hare ho industry ena, feela li ne li sa kenella ka hare ho tsamaiso kapa the Bureau. Re ne re leka hore re kenye the element of … re etse a balanced representation ea everybody but also re etse dilute representation of Government hobane ha e le makala a ‘Muso feela, a na le hore ebe h’a responsible kapa a lieha to respond leha li-stakeholder li na le mathata li batla ho thusoa kannete li ea lieha hobane ha ho na any pain eo ba e utloang ha e le makala a ‘Muso feela. Ha ba mamele le batho ba bang, empa ha re hapeletse le bana ba bang e bohlokoa haholo hobane le element of diversity ka hare ho the Bureau.
Mohlomong ea ho qetela Ntate Molula-Setulo eo re ileng ra bona e le bohlokoa e tlisa le level of transparency hobane makala a ‘Muso ha a le mang feela, hona le lintho tse ling tseo o ka ‘nang oa fumana ha li na ponaletso ho etsoa liqeto tse ling tse amang the whole industry, tse amang all other players ka hare ho this industry bao e leng hore ha ba ka hare ho ‘Muso feela joale ba tsebe kapa ba sa bone hore li bakoa ke eng. Empa ha everybody a le involved, ho ba le ponaletso. Ke ‘ona mabaka ao re sisintseng hore ho kenelle these other stakeholders.
Lintho tseno tseo re sisintseng hore li kenelle Ntate Molula-Setulo tseo ke itseng ke ho tloha ho (i) ho fihlella ho (n) ke Head of Research ea Research of Department of National University of Lesotho, Commissioner of Lands kapa moemeli oa hae. Lebaka ke hobane litaba tsena tsohle tsa Cannabis kapa tsa Drugs of Abuse e leng khoebo e ncha ka hare ho naha ena, e sebetsana le litaba tsa mobu. Joale re bona lefapha leo re bonang le kene-kene haholo ka hare ho litaba tsena tsa mobu re bona le le sieo e leng leno la Commissioner of Lands.
Joale re ile ra re re bona Marena a Sehlooho a le bohlokoa haholo le ena, ‘me a salletse morao litabeng tsena.
Re ne re shebile sebakeng se seng moo ho entsoeng industry ena joale o fumana hore ho nkuoe mobu oa batho mono, maqhekoana a Molimo joale o utloa hore ekare ka mobu ono oa bona, ba iphelletsoe chelete e baloang ka makholo feela e seng le makholo a likete. E ka tlaase ho sekete u iphelloa chelete eno u fane ka mobu ono. Joale re re ae re hloka hore Marena le ‘ona e ke e-be karolo ea taba ena. A tle a tsebe ho bona hore a loanela sechaba sa ‘ona se bonahalang hore mobu oa sona o inkeloa ka thutsoana ea ‘mooane, hobane rona kutloisiso ea rona ke hore li-industry tseo are multi-million industry, tseno tsa li-Cannabis.
Re utloisisa hore ho bohlokoa hore batho bao ho nkoang mobu oa bona, e-be li-shareholder rather than hore ebe ho nkoa mobu oa hae o fihla a fuoa maloti a lekholo. Empa ha e le li-shareholder o lula a ntse a fumana molemo nako ena kaofela ha company eno e fumana liphaello. Ke a mang a mabaka ao re neng re a behile.
Ho tloha mono, re ile ra bona ho le bohlokoa hore re hatelle Mongoli e Moholo ka lebaka la hore re ne re ile ra hlalosetsoa ke Lekala le neng le tlile koano ka pele ho Komiti hore ba na le bothata bo ts’abehang – che ke utloile hore Ntate Minister o amohetse hore ho etsoe address bo bong, bane ba hore batho ba ne ba sa fuoe li-allowance, feela ho thoe batho ba hana ho etsa attend liphutheho.
Joale u fumana hore phutheho ena kapa this bureau, Molula-Setulo is just a junior officer joale o bitsa batho ba baholo ba tsoang makaleng a mang ba ka holimo ho eena ka li-position ba ikhanela ho tloha. U fumana hore mosebetsi ono eba oa ‘mantloaneng.
Ha ho qala ho ba joalo it means re beha industry ena at risk, e ke be ea atleha hobane re e khelletse tlaase haholo, joale ho bohlokoa hore re tlise batho ba boikarabelo hore industry ena e tsebe ho hola, e re tlisetse melemo hobane ke e ‘ngoe e ka tsebang ho pharalatsa revenue base ea naha ea Lesotho, ha re ka ra e ts’oara hantle hobane e na le chelete e ngata. Re ts’oanela hore re e fe its due respect ka hore, Mongoli e Moholo oa Lekala ebe karolo ea this Bureau, e se ke ea e-ba karolo feela. Ebe e-be Molula-Setulo hore a tle a tsebe ho laela ba ikarabellang kapa ho bitsa bohle hore ba tle phuthehong ka nako ea liphutheho.
Sehlopha sa ho qetela seo re buang ka sona, ke moemeli oa Lesotho Chamber of Commerce. Taba ena ka khoebo ena, is not just mosebetsi feela ke khoebo ‘me boemeli ba Lesotho Chamber of Commerce bo tla re thusa hore re shebe taba ena from business point of view.
Ntlha ea ho qetela, Ntate Molula-Setulo, tlas’a Clause 14 mona ke (2)(a) le (4) line ea pele moo Komiti e sisinyang hore kamor’a lentsoe “themselves”, re hlakole mantsoe “a chairperson and”. Lebaka la rona la ho etsa tjena Ntate Molula-Setulo, ke hobane ha u ka sheba mane Clause 14 (i) e ncha, re itse Mongoli e Moholo a kenelle ka hare ho this Bureau ebe e-be Molula-Setulo. Joale ha ekare ha re fihla mona temana ena eo ke leng ho eona ea ba e re a Bureau, e tla khetha Molula-Setulo le Motlatsi oa Molula-Setulo.
Re tla be re itoants’a hobane re se re itse Mongoli e Moholo e-be Molula-Setulo. ke ntho ena re reng taba eno ea khetho e tle e felle ho Motlatsi oa Mongoli. Ka mantsoe ana Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane, ke sisinya hore Lihlomathiso tsena li eme e le karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Kea leboha.
Clause 14 as Amended: Question, that Clause 14 as Amended, proposed
HON. S. SEKATLE: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi. Ke leboha Lihlomathiso tsena tsa Komiti, empa ke ne ke ipotsa hore na Komiti e ne e ke ke ea ba pelo-mongobo hore ebe ho ka lokisoa haholo Clause 14 (1) (a) (ii) and (c) mono moo ho thoeng, “replace”. Na e ne e ke ke ea re “a specialist” joalo-joalo hobane I cannot see my way to move the whole pharmacist ea okametseng Lekala la Bophelo, a okametse litlhare tsohle a ka bang sieo mona in the Bureau. Ka tsela eno ache e ka ba kotsi hobane ke eena ea etsang authorise ka matla a hae a molao to allow imports tsa litlhare. Haeba a ka ba sieo joalo ea ba ho na le specialist se hlahang kae-kae, we are creating conflict, we are also demeaning mosebetsi oa motho enoa ea okametseng pharmacy in the whole country.
Ha ke tsebe hore na ke ntho e ka etsoang joang, kapa re amohele eona ea hore ho kenyelletsoe motho ea tsebang ea hlahang ka thoko ea tsebang ka taba ea ho tsoaka litlhare, ho etsa dispatch litlhare ka mokhoa o nepahetseng. But to exclude this person e leng ntho e neng e etsahala hona joale tjena, ea hore she was indeed being excluded from a Bureau empa e le eena ea okametseng litlhare naha ka bophara.
Ka ’nete ha ke tsebe hore na re ka thusoa joang. Sehlomathiso sena se na le tokelo ea ho etsa authorise export and imports of drugs, general drugs not only this one. The day re mo etsang exclude from decision-making, re mo etsa relegate to a drug as a coordinator, is the day we are creating conflict – Bana ba haeso, eitse le ba bolela le re ba ntih ela (Hon.Chairperson: rona re utloile ka uena) – [lits’eho]
HON. CHAIR-PERSON: Ntate Au, can you say something on what the Minister has just said?
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha Ntate Molula-Setulo. Litaba tsena ha se litaba tsa ka ke le motho, ke litaba tsa Komiti ea haeso ka mokhoa oo e neng e ile ea sheba litaba ka teng, ‘me yes! Ke ts’oere litaba lebitsong la Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo empa Litho tsa haeso le tsona li ka tseba hore li akhele litabeng tsena.
Empa taba ea Head of Pharmaceutical Services, ka ‘na ka tsela eo Mohlomphehi Letona a e hlolosang ka teng I do not find it problem anyway. Kea kholoa leha taba ena joale ke se ke bua maikutlo a ka ke se ke sa bue maikutlo a Komiti. Ke nahana it is important hore as an acting Chairperson, ke bue maikutlo a komiti e seng a ka and let Litho tsa Komiti e-be tsona tse akhelang hore na maikutlo a tsona ke afeng.
Truly speaking, I do not find it as a problem. Empa taba e kholo-kholo eo re neng re e shebile e neng e re ts’ositse rona re le Litho tsa Komiti, ke hore re ne re bona Boemeli ba Puso bo le very dominant. Hantle-ntle o ne o bona the whole structure e le Boemeli ba ‘Muso. Joale re re no! ‘Muso ha o responsible ebile o lieha hona hoo ha o sebetsa o le mong.
Ke hore le ha o ka ba oa lla ka ‘nqena, batho bana ba ke ke ba ea liphuthehong empa ha ho na le batho bao e leng hore they are from private sector, ke li-stakeholder tse ling li na le boemeli ka mono, ba tseba hore ba thuse hore maikutlo a be balanced, ts’ebetso e-be balanced ka tsela e nang le ponaletso e-be teng. E ne e le eona ngongoreho ea rona e kholo eo re neng re leka ho etsa dilute. Re ne re leka ho hlapolla boemo bona boo re neng re bo bona hobane re ne re bona hore boemo bona, is not going to be useful for this industry, bo tl’o tla bo etsa slow down. Bo tl’o tla bo etsa cripple this industry ebe e qetelle e sa etse perform hantle. E ne e le eona tsela eo re neng re e bona ka teng but otherwise I do not have any problem.
HON. CHAIR-PERSON: Ke utloa eka le bua ntho e ts’oanang le the Honourable Minister. Moo empa a na le khoao ke moo ho thoeng ho nts’oe Head of Pharmaceutical Services but he is buying the idea ea hore motho e mong ea tsoang ka ntle oa setsebi a be teng hona ho bona hore litaba tseno tseo u li buang e le motho ea emetseng le batho ba sebelisang lintho ka nq’ane. We all know hore na litaba tsa ‘Muso li tsamaea butle hakakang. Joale u re na, how do we go about it?
HON. SENATOR T. M. MOHALE: Kea leboha Ntate Molula-Setulo. Joaloka ha u cho, Ntate, kea kholoa re kile ra sireloa ke matsatsi ana ao pharmacist e nang le ‘ona hobane rona sepheo sa rona ke ho pshatla marako joaloka ha Molula-Setulo oa nakoana a hlalosa. Re ile ra ela hloko hore ‘Muso joaloka ha o khanna maano a litaba tsa hore industry ena e bonahalang e le vibrant ha e se tlhokoa ka Bahlanka ba ‘Muso, e tla re bakela mathata ‘me ka ’nete ha ke tsebe hore na Ntate Molula-Setulo taba ena re ka e sebetsa joang, ea hore mohlomong le haeba re na le expertise pharmacist a ‘ne a be teng a hlompheloe maemo a hae, ‘me ha ke utloe li hlabana, Ntate. Kea kholoa e se e tla ba hore Molula-Setulo o tla re tataisa re e shebe hore na sekhoqetsane sena na re se lokisa joang.
Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
HON. CHAIR-PERSON: Honourable Members, ke kopa re khutleleng ka Ntlong hanyane.
(The House was resumed at 12:58p.m.)
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, re lokela ho etsa qeto, ke hora ea pele ke nako ea lijo tsa mots’eare, re ne re se re setse ka mela e ‘meli ho qetela mosebetsi oa rona oa letsatsi la kajeno. Ke re na ho khahla Ntlo ee hore re tsoele pele ka mosebetsi oo re qetele o motsohong kapa re tle re khutle ha hora ea bobeli e fetile ka metsotso e mashome a mararo kamora lijo tsa mots’eare?
HON. SENATOR S. G. MASUPHA: Mohlomphehi, kea leboha. Ke utloa eka ekare ho setse ntho e nyane haholo eo mohlomong ha re ne re ka ra e fa metsotso e mashome a mararo, re tla be re e qetile kapa hofihlella re e qeta feela (ha ke bue le lona).
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Members, Order! Morena Khoabane Order! Morena Sempe u behile maikutlo a hae, ‘me motho ea nang le maikutlo a fapaneng le a Morena Sempe o tla ema a behe a hae a se ke a hlasela Morena Sempe.
HON. SENATOR T. M. MOHALE: Ke ne ke mpa ke tlatsa maikutlo a Setho se Khabane Ntate Sempe.
Question, that Standing Order No. 16 (5) be suspended, put and agreed to.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Rea leboha, Litho tse Khabane. Re ka tsoelapele ho ba ka Komiting.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee
In a Committee
HON. CHAIR-PERSON: Honourable Au, lebitsong la Komiti ke ne ke re na le ke keng la fumana mohlomong, for now le ka la tlohella Sehlomathiso seo?
HON. S. SEKATLE: Mohlomphehi, ha ke rate Komiti e tlohelle Sehlomathiso sena se setle empa ke re ba se ke ba etsa replace this person but Sehlomathiso se re, “motho enoa oa specialist a kenelle ka mona ka moo ho e ntsoeng lethathamo la Clause 1 (ii)(h) “insert”. Ke hore ho etsoe “insert” motho enoa oa specialist …from medical dental council. ‘Na ke ne ke bona e le joalo. Sehlomathiso sona se setle haholo and is totally acceptable.
HON. SENATOR S. G. MASUPHA: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Taba ena ke utloa eka ekare e nyane empa ke taba e kholo, ka hona ke ne ke re mona re se re tla tataisoa ke Tafole hore na ebe taba ena re ka e lokisa ka mokhoa ofeng. Haeba ho ka etsahala re fuoe monyetla, re ke re ilo e sheba hore na ebe re ke ke ra e lokisa na empa haeba litsamaiso li hana ha ke tsebe hore na ho tla etsahala joang.
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Kea leboha Ntate. Ke ntse ke leka ho fumana bona boeletsi bono, joale bothata ke hore akere taba ee e neng e le ea Komiti e lumellanoe ka har’a Komiti ea ba e tla ka Ntlong, in as much as e sa tlamelle Ntlo ho e nka as it is but ho e ngola bocha ke ntho e ‘ngoe e fapanang joang. Ke hona moo bothata bo hlahang hona teng. Re hloloa ke taba e technical ea hore we cannot re-write it ka mona ka Komiting ea Ntlo. In as much as in essence re lumellana, but we cannot do it here. That is where a problem is. It has to be a new Amendment altogether.
HON. S. SEKATLE: Can it be deferred? E leng ho re re ke be ra tseba ho qeta mosebetsi oa letsatsi lena kapa ho qeta this process ea Third Reading. Where are the legal people here?
HON. CHAIR-PERSON: Ae Ntate, u e qetile. Honourable Minister ke nahana hore we need to defer mosebetsi ona, ‘me Bill ena e ke be ea fela. We will have to come back again some other time. Joale rea lumellana ka hore na Sehlomathiso sona se lokisoe ka sepobeho sefeng? Re fihla pheletsong ea mosebetsi oa rona ka Komiting ka mona.
The House resumed at 13:06 hrs
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Members! Re tsoile ka Komiting mosebetsi o sa fela, ‘me taba eno e re fihlisa pheletsong ea mosebetsi oa rona oa letsatsi la kajeno. Ntlo e tla phomola ho fihlela Labobeli la beke e tlang ha hora ea leshome e fetile ka metsotso e mashome a mararo hoseng. The House is adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT
Thereupon, Mr. Vice-President adjourned the House without question, put pursuant to the Standing Order No.16 (3).
The House was adjourned accordingly at 13:07hrs.