OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE SENATE
DAILY HANSARD
6th Meeting – First Session
Eleventh Parliament
Date: Tuesday 4th JUNE, 2025.
LENANE LA LITHO TSA NTLO EA MAHOSANA TSA PARAMENTE EA LESHOME LE MOTSO O MONG
| 1.Hon. Seeiso B. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Matsieng |
| 2. Hon. Joel A. Motšoene | Principal Chief of Leribe |
| 3.Hon. Sempe Gabasheane Masupha | Principal Chief of Ha ’Mamathe, Thupa-Kubu, Teya-Teyaneng le Jordan |
| 4.Hon. Mamolapo M. Q Majara | Principal Chief of Ha Majara |
| 5.Hon. Tumane Matela | Principal Chief of Makhoakhoeng |
| 6.Hon. Moeketsi Moletsane II | Principal Chief of Taung |
| 7.Hon. Lerotholi Mathealira Seeiso | Principal Chief of Mokhotlong |
| 8. Hon. Lerotholi L. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Likhoele |
| 9. Hon. Theko D. Bereng | Principal Chief of Phamong |
| 10.Hon. Mojela T. Makhaola | Principal Chief of Qacha’s Nek |
| 11.Hon. Seeiso S. H. Nkuebe | Principal Chief of Quthing |
| 12.Hon. Nthupi A. Bereng | Principal Chief of Rothe, Masite, Serooeng, Letšeng, Kolo Ha Mohlalefi le Thaba-Tseka Ha Ntaote |
| 13.Hon. K.L.K Khoabane | Principal Chief of Thaba-Bosiu |
| 14.Hon. Mitchel S. Maama | Principal Chief of Ha Maama |
| 15.Hon Moholobela M. Moholobela | Principal Chief of Matelile |
| 16.Hon. Bereng G. Seeiso Api | Principal Chief of Ha Ramabanta le Kubake |
| 17. Peete Lesaoana Peete | Principal Chief of Koeneng le Mapoteng |
| 18.Hon. ’Mako T.Mohale | Principal Chief of Tajane, Ha Moetsana le Ha Mohale |
| 19. Hon. Khoabane T. Mojela | Principal Chief of Tebang, Tšakholo le Ha Seleso |
| 20. Hon. Retšelisitsoe Mopeli | Principal Chief of Botha-Bothe |
| 21.Hon. Pontšo S. Mathealira | Principal Chief of Tsikoane, Peka le Kolbere |
| 22.Hon. Qeto Sekonyela | Principal Chief of Malingoaneng |
| 23.Hon.’Mawinnie Kanetsi | Senator |
| 24. Hon. Lebona Khoaele | Senator |
| 25. Hon. Thabiso Lebese | Senator |
| 26. Hon. ‘Maphakiso Lebona | Senator |
| 27. Hon. ’Mabataung Patricia Mokhathali | Senator |
| 28. Hon.Sehlooho HenryMonatsi | Senator |
| 29. Hon. ‘Makholu Moshoeshoe | Senator |
| 30. Hon. Neo Matjato Moteane | Senator |
| 31. Hon. Seabata Motsamai | Senator |
| 32. Hon.Richard Ramoeletsi | Senator |
| 33. Hon. Limpho Tau | Senator |
PARLIAMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
SENATE CHAMBER
Wednesday 4th June, 2025
The House assembled at 10:30 a.m.
(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)
PRAYER
The Chaplain led the House in Prayer
ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM THE CHAIR
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa ho etsa tsebiso eo ke bonang hore kajeno re na le eona e le ‘ngoe feela, ‘me ke kopa hore ke le tekele eona:
- Re fumane lengolo le tsoang Ofising ea Mongoli e Moholo oa ‘Muso, le re tsebisang ka masoabi a maholo ka lefu la Justice Winston Matanzima Maqutu, eo lefu le mo khaoletsang a se a le phomolong ka mora ho sebeletsa Makhotla a ‘Muso oa Motlotlehi ka lilemo tse leshome le metso e mene (14). O hlokahetse ka la 28 Mots’eanong, 2025, ‘me o tla bolokoa ka la 07 Phuptjane, 2025 naheng ea Afrika Borwa.
Litho tse Khabane, joalo ka ha e le tloaelo, ke kopa re emeng, re feng Mohlanka eo oa Motlotlehi our respect.
[MOMENT OF SILENCE]
MADAM PRESIDENT: Moea oa hae le oa Balumeli bohle ba falletseng lefats’eng o phomole ka khotso mohaung oa Molimo!
AUDIENCE: Ha ho be joalo!
MADAM PRESIDENT: Kea Leboha, Litho tse Khabane.
Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa feela hore ke mpe ke fetise hore ho na le seo re lokelang hore re se qetele pele re qala mosebetsi oa letsatsi lena, ‘me ke kopa hore ke etse suspend the House for 20 minutes, re tle re khutlele ka Ntlong.
The House was suspended at 10:42 am until 11:19am
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, Order!
Ka ‘nete ke kopa hore ke mpe ke fetiseliteboho tsa rona ka mamello eo le bileng le eona, ha ntse re hlopha mosebetsi hore o tl’o tsamaee ka thello.
Next Item, Mr Clerk!
TABLING OF SUBORDINATE LAWS
- Income Tax (Amendment of Monetary Amounts) Regulations, 2025.
Hon. Minister N.M Moteane: Madam President, I rise to table ‘The Income Tax Amendment Regulations of 2025’.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, this Subordinate Law is referred to a relevant Committee.
Next Item, Mr Clerk!
PROCEEDINGS ON SUBSTANTIVE MOTIONS AND BILLS
BILL
TENTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BILL, 2024.
SECOND READING
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI (Minister of Law and Justice): Mohlomphehi Mookameli oa Ntlo ena e Khabane, ke ema mona ke teka Bill ena hore e Baloe Lekhetlo la Bobeli.
Mohlomphehi, ke teka Sehlomathiso sena sa Leshome sa Molao oa Motheo. Sehlomathiso sena se kolla maikutlong a Sechaba a ileng a bokelloa ka tlas’a Tlhopho-Bocha, e leng Multi Stake Holder National Dialogue on Comprehensive National Reforms.
Sehlomathiso sena ka kakaretso se na le lihlomathiso kapa li-clause tse mashome a mabeli a metso e robong (29). Sehlamathiso sena se hlahisa kahar’a Molao oa Motheo likarolo tse ncha le likarolo tse hlomathisitsoeng, ‘me sehlomathiso sena se bokellelitse lihlomathiso tse hlokang hore li fete kahar’a Ntlo ea Mahosana ho etsoa li-vote tsa kakaretso ea 2/3 (Two-Thirds).
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. I so move.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Ke kopa Seconder.
HON. SENATOR L. TAU (Minister in the Office of The Prime Minister): Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ke ema mona ho tlatsa ts’isinyo ena e tekiloeng ke Mohlomphehi Letona hore Sehlomathiso sena se baloe Lekhetlo la Bobeli.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Question proposed
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Kea u leboha Mohlomphehi. Ke ne ke re ke mpe ke etse fie-fiella ho Litho tsa h’eso hore li tle li be le kamohelo e mofuthu tabeng ena e behoang, e entsoeng kamor’a litumellano tse matlahali, tseo re ntseng re na le liphapanyetsano, ‘me hangata hofeta hanyane moo litaba tsa sechaba li sebetsoang ka tsela ena ho ba le li-misunderstanding. Empa at this time, at this stage, we submit hore ke nako ea hore Molao ona o fete o lokise Molao oa rona oa Motheo oo esale o thehoa ka 1993, ‘me o ileng oa etsa hore ho be le liphepetso bophelong ba tsamaiso ea naha, ka likanta tsohle tsa eona. Ka hona re rata feela hore re behe taba ena hore re amohele ho sena khoao, empa ts’epano e be teng re tsoelepele ka eona. E tsoe ho se ho na le litaba le lipuo-puo tseo re ke keng ra kena le ho tsona, empa re ratang feela re keneng khabong ea taba ena e lokisoe stage by stage, ‘me Molao ona o tle o fete e le mosebetsi o seng o entsoe ke National Assembly.
Senate se lokela ho aka le ho fetisa ka thello hore re tle re bone mohlomong litaba li fetoha, hobane lefats’e le shebile Lesotho hore na le tla ke le fihlele joang litaba tsena tseo e leng phephetso ho batho ba fuoeng matla a ho etsa joalo, e leng rona re le Litho tsa National Assembly and Senate ka kakaretso.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR R. P. L. PEETE. Kea leboha, Madam President. Ke ema mona, ‘M’e, ke tlatsa hore Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se fete.
Ntate Motlotlehi o ile a ka a bua ntho e kholo, Madam President, ho rona a re re le babusi ba sechaba sena sa hae, re le matsoho a hae, a re ho rona – ‘me Puo ea Ntate Motlotlehi ke taelo! A re ho rona ka linako tsohle ha re sebetsa litaba tsa sechaba re ke re tlohelle borona. A re re itlohelle bo-rona re shebe sechaba sena sa Basotho pele.
Ke ne ke re, Madam President, taba eno e ne e bolela patriotism. Ntate Motlotlehi ha a ne a cho joalo o ne a re ho rona, ‘rata ba habo lona le rate naha ena joalokaha le ithata’, ‘me haeba Sets’oantso sena sa Molao ha re se fetisa hone ho tla be ho le molemong oa sechaba sa Basotho ke ema mona, ‘M’e, ka phatla e phahameng ke ts’ehetsa hore Sets’oants’o sena se fete molemong oa sechaba sa Basotho.
Ke tlontlollo e kakaang ha eka eaba agenda ea SADC (Southern African Development Countries.ka linako tsohle! Har’a linaha tse bolaeanang, tse loanang, tse senang botsitso ebe naha ea Lesotho e lula e le teng har’a linaha tse joalo? Na re ka rata re le naha ea Lesotho ka linako tsohle re lula re balelloa har’a bo Democratic Republic of Congo moo re tsebang hore merabe e ea bolaeana, ke lintoa ebile ke mafu? Ha ke rate hore ke bone Lesotho le le joalo. ke rata hore Lesotho le tsoe melomong ea lichaba, melomong ea batho ba nkang Lesotho e le naha e senang khotso.
Ke rata hore ha ke qetella puo ea ka, Madam President, ha ke ntse ke tlatsa Sehlomathiso sena, ke re ke etsa boipiletso ho Basotho bohle, haholo-holo ba nkang karolo e ka pele-pele litabeng tsa lipolotiki hore lehaeba re ka fapana ka maikutlo, empa nakong eo ho etsoang ntho e molemong oa sechaba, ooele! Moo e bang re ile ra fosetsana re leballane molemong oa sechaba sena sa Basotho!
Hona le banna le basali ba nang le tumelo ea hore ha ba ka ba senya ba senya feela, ‘me hobane ba sa tsotelle ba nahana hore kaofela le rona re tlaba joalo. Che! Che! Rona re le Ntlo ena ea Motlotlehi re rata hore se etsoang se etsoe ka moea o motle ka a goodwill and good spirit. Re nke karolo joale rona re e nke ka tsela e ts’oanang,
Ke ne ke re ka mants’oe ana a mabeli a fokolang ke tlatsa hore Sets’oantso sena se fete, Basotho ba fumane khotso.
HON. SENATOR L.L. SEEISO: Ke kopa hore ke ise hlompho ho uena, ‘M’e President le Matona a Khabane a ‘Muso oa Motlotlehi a teng ka koano. Thapelo ea kamehla eo re atisang ho e fuoa kahare ho Ntlo ena ea Senate ka boeona ke eo ke reng re ikhopole re le Litho tsa Ntlo ena hore Thapelo eno ka bo eona ke eona e re tataisang ka ho nepa. Ke kopa u tle u ntumelle, ‘M’e President, ke tle ke qotse karoloana ea eona e reng:
“O re thuse re tsamaee ka ts’abo pel’a sefahleho sa hau, re lahlele hole le rona lithato tsa lipelo tsa rona, boikhohomoso le boits’epi, ‘me tsohle tseo re tla li phetha mona ebe tse tlotlisang lebitso la Molimo le Halalelang”
Re le Litho tse ngata tse ikanneng ka bohlanka hore re tla ts’epahalla Motlotlehi, bajalefa le ba bang – re le Litho tsa Ntlo ena hoa rona re ikhopole hore re le Litho re bahlanka, re basebeletsi, empa e kaholimo ke ho sireletsa boiketlo ba sechaba sa Basotho.
Ke kopa ke tle ke mpe ke qopetse taba, hore re bile le mebuso eo ke sa tsebeng na nka re e mekae. Ke tla ntlheng ea taba ea marena a reng a tla beha likharafu fats’e. Batho ba teng ba kileng ba ka ba busa – ha ba ka ba nahanela marena a Lesotho, ‘me ke re ke kopa hore-‘na ke ee ke re: ke lumela bophelong batho ba nthatang ba nthatela ‘nete ea ka, le ba ntlhoeang ba ntlhohele eona. Ke hoba ke re ho marena a ka ane a tlase mane metseng, ke re, “ha ho se ke hoa bonahala re itebala, hobane re le marena re thepa ea sechaba sa Basotho, ‘me ekare litaba tsohle ha li atameloa li ka atameloa ka mokhoa oa boikokobetso”. Har’a lifela tsa kereke e Catholic hona le sefela se reng:
“O theotse ba matla litulong a beha baikokobetsang”
Bophelong mona u kaba le matla ‘ohle feela litaba tse ngata hore u qetelle u atlehile bophelong mona ke ho ikokobetsa le moo ‘nq’a e ‘ngoe u tla fumana hore ha ho hlokahale hore u ikokobetse, ‘me hangata u tla fumana lintho tse ngata li tsamaea hantle.
Le Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo a le tjena o ile a re llela, a re kopa a re o kopa hore lekhetlong lena o kopa hore re le Ntlo re mpe re bone hore na re ka fetisa Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao kapele hakae hore e tle e re ha a ea SADC ho tle ho hlaelle ho na le litaba tseo Matlo a mabeli a sebelitseng holim’a tsona.
Ha ho hlokahale le hore motho a bue halelele, empa ke hore motho o re feela, Letona le Khabane, re aka litaba tsena ka mokhoa oo li fetileng kateng. Le ‘nete e teng ea litaba tse ngata holim’a lihlomathiso tsena tsa Molao oa Motheo, ke ea hore Ntlo ena ea Senate e ileng ea ‘na ea li fetisa ‘nete e teng ke ea hore Ntlo ena Senate e ile ea ‘na ea li fetisa, e ile ea mpa eaba batho ba neng ba le Pusong nakong eno ba ileng ba icheba, ‘me qetellong ea qetello hoa ba hoa buloa Paramente eaba monna Mosotho o itjoetsa hore o il’o qholotsa taba eno ea hore benghali ba ne ba shebile hore ho tle ho eketsoe, ho shoejoe litaba tsa boiketlo ba bona lintlheng tsa lichelete, feela ba sa ka ba nahana hore ba ne ba ka sebetsa litaba kapele.
Ntlo ena ha e ikhopole feela hore re Bahlanka, re Basebeletsi ba Sechaba sa Basotho.E ka holimo re le Bahlanka ho Motlotlehi.
Ha ke behile hakana, ke kopa ke kokobele.
Kea leboha.
HON SENATOR M. KANETSI: Ke kopa ke u hlomphe, Madam President, ke hlomphe Matona a teng, Litho tse Khabane le bohle ba teng ka Ntlong.
Ka’nete le ‘na ke ema mona ho tlatsa hore Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se fete. Ke se bone hore se na le likarolo tse bohlokoa haholo tse potlakileng tseo re lokelang ho li fetisa mona. Nka qoolla hanyenyane feela ka hore ho na le Lihlomathiso tsa interest groups ka mona tsa batho bao ka sekhooa ho thoeng ke Marginalised people.
Eleng hore re se re tl’o ba le batho bane ba hlahisang mantsoe a bona ka hare ho litaba tsa Puso eleng Public interest, ka sehloohong le hore Paramente e ke e ikemele e tle e tsebe ho tsamaisa litaba tsa eona joaloka linaheng tse ling.
Ka’nete ke utloa e le litaba tsa bohlokoa tseo ke reng leha re es’o qete re le ntlhaneng ea litaba tsa Tlhopho Bocha, ke ne ke kopa hore ka’nete re fetise Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Ha ke chulo joalo, kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON SENATOR S.B. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Madam President.
Le ‘na ke kopa hore ke behe a mabeli feela mothating ona oa pele oa moqoqo ona oa ho khothaletsa hore Ntlo ena e Khabane ebe pelo nolo ho fetisa Sets’oants’o sena sa The Tenth Amendment.
Ntate Motsamai, ke rata ho re ho uena ke behe mantsoe ke ana, This House will be judged according to what we say and do and we pray to God that we do and say what is in the benefit of the Nation. Ntlo ena e tla ahloloa ke Sechaba sena holim’a liketso tsa rona kapa lipuo tsa rona ho latela hore na ke liketso kapa lipuo tse molemong oa sechaba kapa che!
‘Mina thoko Bukeng e Kholo o re ‘ka lebaka le Sione nke ke ka khutsa, nke ke ka ipha sebaka ho fihlela ho loka hoa Jehovah ho hlaha joaloka mafube a hoseng.’
Mantsoe a mang a hlahang Bukeng mono, empa a buua ke libui, le kheleke tse fetang… mantsoe ao a re, u rate oa heno joale ka ha u ithata, do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.
Thapelo ea Morena e re ”Ntate, u nts’oarele joale ka ha le ‘na liphosong tsa ka ke lebeletse hore uena Jehovah oa ka u nts’oarele.”
Honourable Minister Ntate ke ema mona ke re ke the Minister who is mong’a khomo eo ke ts’epang hore ha re ntse re e hama ha e na kenya tlhako kahar’a khamelo ebe e qhala lebese.
History has shown – re lipaki, ‘me kea tseba Ntate Ramoeletsi ke sebalibali, hore the policy of appeasement e tlisitse hore lefats’e le ee Ntoeng ea Bobeli.
I have reference to this in one context, ea hore while we agree or we may agree to pass this Amendment Bill, let us be weary of the negative history that has brought us to this point.
Re bile mona kahar’a Ntlo ena e Khabane,Madam President, you will remember, ‘me re bile liphuthehong, you remember, eaba lits’omo li ba teng melomong ea bana ba batho, ba re Paramente ha se hoteleng hobane ba ne ba sa batle hore Molao kapa Sets’oantso seno se fete, in the former Parliament, you will remember!
Ntlo ena ka boikokobetso e ile ea ikobela tse ngata hore Sets’oants’o seno se fete, but unfortunately lipelo tsa bana ba batho eaba li sitoa hore li amohele letsoho leno la hore even though we may not agree, ha re lumellane ka tsohle, empa molemong oa Sechaba, re kopa hore litaba tsena li fete. Joale eaba letsoho leno le otloa ka mokonkoana le khutlela ka pakothong ebile le ruruhile.
Ke mokhoa ona ke reng, Honourable Minister, this Honourable House bears scars. You were not there, but u karolo ea Basotho ba neng ba ntse ba bona, ba utloa. Mohlomong u karolo ea bana ba Basotho ba boneng, ba utloileng ua ba ua itherela hore joale ke tloha mane ho my comfort zone ke itlisa har’a mollo ona oo ke tl’o batla hore ke etelle pele sechaba ka sebopeho sa polotiki.
HON SENATOR L.L. SEEISO: Kea leboha, ‘M’e President.
Ke u lebohe, Ntate Mantata.
Ke ne ke re ka ha re sa boetse re tl’o tla ba le katamelo ea Number 11 haele mona re fetisa ena ea leshome, na Letona le Khabane, ka uena Ntate, na a ka ba le hona hore a re fumants’e monyetla oa hore re tle re fumane Daily Hansard ea National Assembly nakong eno eo ho neng ho khobotloa litaba tsena kaofela, re tle ‘ne re hopole hore re tsebe ho beha litaba hantle?
Kea leboha.
HON SENATOR S.B. SEEISO: Ntate Tholo, kea leboha, Ntate.
Kea kholoa potso ena ea hao the Honourable Minister and Ministers are here ba ikutloela, empa nka re ke boele ke e nonts’e ka hore history e ile ea re ruta hore re lutse ka hare ho Ntlo eona ena, re ts’episoa hore, ‘eno e tl’o feta ha ke tloha mona feela qeta-qetang kapele, ha ke fihla ka holimo ka mane ke tl’o ba kopa,ke ba joetse hore ntho ena Senate se lumellane – ha e fete. Hlana-hlana nkhate ke hlaname! Hona hoo ha a fihla ka Ntlong ea Bakhethoa motho eane a re, ‘ke le joetse bane ba ntse ba pota ka tlase ka mane ka Ntlong ea Senate’!
Ebe enoa ea ts’oanetseng hore joale a batalatse mabala ke eena, ka boomo, a nkileng peke le focholo a cheka likoti hore joale koloi ena e se ke ea ba ea tsamaea. Ke mokhoa ona ke reng The Policy of appeasement e tliselitse lefats’e Ntoa ea Bobeli ea Lefats’e.
Hitler a ntsa bonoa a ntse a nanara a nka naha ena, a nka naha eane, eaba ho ntse ho thoe re tla bua le eena; khabareng e ile eare ha mollo o se o le mathuleng a ho etsa Westminster eaba ke hona makhooa a hlokomelang hore motho enoa a kutileng moustache ha a phele hantle.
Moo ke batlang ho ea teng ke hore, Litho tsa haeso tse Khabane, Ntate Tholo o bua ka Molao oa Borena Number 22 of 1968 Section 6 eoha motho u tsoha u le Morena u ts’oanetse ebe ke pina ea hao ea letsatsi ha u tsoha.
Ke le Morena mosebetsi oa ka oa mantlha ha ke bua, ha ke tsamaea, ha ke its’oara ke ho baballa seriti sa ea mpehileng mona, eleng Morena e moholo. Ka ho etsa joang? Ka ho sebeletsa Sechaba, ho sireletsa motho le thepa ea hae. Seo ke boitlamo ba rona ha re ts’oere Bible re re re tla ba kahar’a office tsena tseo hothoeng ke tsa Marena re itlama hore, ‘tsohle tseo ke tla li etsa e tla ba ts’ireletsong ea seriti sa Rabasotho’.
Ke mokhoa ona ke reng, Ntate, History will judge us correctly or wrongly if we fail this Nation ho fapanya pelo le leleme.
Lastly, ho selelekela sena sa litaba tsa ka, Ntate Honourable Minister Ntate Moteane, potso eo nka ratang hore ha ke e bue ho Litho tsena tsa haeso feela, empa ke bua ho Sechaba sena sa habo rona is, what fundamentally is- na hana Molao oa Motheo ke ‘eng?
Fundamentally, what is the Constitution? Ha ke khutsufatsa potso eno kapa karabo ea potso eno, I may want to say it is an embodiment of Laws that govern those who agree to be governed under those Laws.
The second or top player ea hore na Constitution ke eng, Molao oa Motheo na ke eng; ke litaba-tabelo tsa sechaba se ratang ho busoa ka seose itlamang hore se tla se hlompha. The aspirations is the vision, it is the heritage.
Ka mantsoe a mang, we cannot ever re le Sechaba sa Basotho find stability in a Constitution that is alien ho litloaelo le litaba-tabelo tsa Basotho. It has to reflect hore na kholo ea ka mane Matsieng, Nkhono oa ka Tsikoane na eena litaba-tabelo tsa hae le chebelo pele ea hae e kollang nalaneng ea bophelo ba hae e le motho, na hana joale Molao oo o fela o le joang.
Ntate Tholo, haeba u ka hopola, Morena oa ka oa Likhoele, re ne re le ka Stadium ka mane, Ntate Motlotlehi a nka kano, those many years ago. A re, ‘ke lona Basotho ba tla supa hore na le batla Botlotlehi ba mofuta ofe’. This has been reflected in the narrative, moqoqong oa Basotho ha ho ntse ho potolohuoa naha ena ka bophara. Basotho ba boletse hore na ba batla Botlotlehi ba mofuta ofe, ba boletse hore na ba batla hore Ntlo ena ea Senate ebe ka sebopeho sefe, ba boletse hore na Tona-Kholo eo ba e batlang, ba batla Tona-Kholo ea mofuta ofe.
May I dare say, Honourable Minister, a lot of those have been whittled away, eaba batho ba bang ka nako eno ba re maikutlo a batho – a sechaba, ke hleke-hleke. Empa I am not here to preach, I am here to put a point across hore Basotho ba mametseng ba utloe hore Ntlo ena ea Senate kapa Mantata a eme ka hará Ntlo ena ea Senate o re ea pele taba ke hore Morena a sebelletse sechaba sa hae ka botšepehi, hobane o tšepetsoe litaba tseno ke Morena e moholo Motlotlehi.
‘Me haeba re ka hará Ntlo ena o re tšepetse ho etsa joalo, we pray to God, re rapela ho Molimo ea matla ohle hore ebe eena ea tla re tataisa lipuong tsa rona, re se ke ra iphumana boipatlo, boikhohomoso le tsohle tseo u ka li buang tse fosahetseng ho latela thapelo eo re e rapelang hoseng ho hong le ho hong mona. Molimo a behe tsohle tse mpe thoko ho rona ha re le ka hará Ntlo ena. Re sebelletse bonngoe le poelano ea sechaba sena sa morá motho.
Ha ke behile hakaalo, ‘Me’ oa ka, hoa ka feela ke re ke phethe Isaiah 62 o re “ka lebaka la Sione nke ke ka khutsa kapa ka ipha sebaka”.
Kea leboha, ‘Me’.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Morena oa Lioli.
HON. SENATOR S. K. MASUPHA: Mohlomphehi Madam President, ha ke u hlomphe, ke hlomphe le Matona a ka a teng ka hare ho Ntlo ena ao ke tsebang hantle hore a khethiloe ke Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo, a hlohonolofatsoa ke Motlotlehi ka nepo.
Mohlomphehi Madam President, re se re buile, hona e se empa e le ho netefatsa feela hore re le Ntlo ea Senate re ema mona re tšehetsa hore Bill ena ea Leshome e fete, ‘me ebile ke ipiletsa ho Litho tsa haeso hore kaofela re kenye letsoho.
Mohlomphehi, ha litaba li le tjena ha ke rate hore ke ee hole, ho ema hoa ka mona empa e le ho leboha Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo ea Lesotho e teng hona joale, Ntate Sam Ntsokoane Matekane eo eitseng ha a nka lesokoana la Puso a ileng a etsa boitlamo ba hore Molao ona oa Motheoo lokela hore o lokisoe, hobane naha ea Lesotho ka ‘nete e’a kula. A bona hore nke ke ka tseba hore ke tšoare lesokoana lena hantle ha ke sa etse boitlamo ka pele ho Basotho , ka pele ho Motlotlehile le ka pele ho Machaba – ‘me o fetse a etsa joalo.
A re ha ke kena kahará Puso ke tla etsa hore Molao oane o ileng oa liheloa, ‘na ke tl’o etsa hore o phele – ‘me ke sena seo re lutseng holimá sona letsatsing lena. Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, hoa ka ka ‘nete ke ho leboha Tona-Kholo ena ea ka eo ke bonang e ntse e phethahatsa ka bonngoe,ka bobeli,ka boraro boitlamo bane boo a ileng a bo etsa echabeng. Ha se ba bangata bao re seng re ba fetile morao koana ba ileng ba itlama eaba ba etsa tseno tseo ba itseng ba tla li etsa.
Kea tseba, Mohlomphehi, hore Mohlomphehi Sam Matekane ka hare ho Puso o ne a sonngoa hothoe ke mohoebi ea sa tsebeng letho. Empa ke hlokometse hore hangata motho ea bohlale o ikapesa ka batho ba nang le litsebo, joaloka Morena Leabua eo ho neng ho thoe ke le-Standard Six feela Puso ea hae ha ho s’o be le motho ea e fihlelang ha re bua tjena.
Ka hona ke beha qholotso ho uena, Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo, hore ha u ntse u sebetsa, u ntse u ea holimo le tlaase, Ntate, u ‘ne u shebe hore na hana Popompo o ile a etsa eng. Kea bona hore u ntse u batla u tsama-tsamaea mehlaleng ea hae, ua iteka ho tsamaea mehlaleng ea hae kea bona, kea bona hore litsela ke tsena li ntse li loka, tseo li neng li sa loka li ntse li loka le rona Marena rea bona ebile rea tšepa hore kamoso litaba-tabelo tsa rona li tla phethahala.
Mohlomphehi, ke sa senye le nako, empa ke re ho mali-mabe Morena ea ka koenehelang likano tsa hae tsa Bohlanka boo a bo tsoaletsoeng. Ke re motho ea joalo o mali-mabe ea ka reng o lula fatše e le Mohlanka oa Sechaba ea khethiloeng ke Morena Molimo, ebe o re eena o lula fatše ha a etse mosebetsi ka lebaka feela la bosaoana ba litaba tseo re tsebang hantle hore li tla tla li loka. O mali-mabe, shame!
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, ke qetele feela ka hore ke ema mona le ‘na ka phatla e phahameng hore ke re ha re fetiseng Molao ona o tl’o sebelletsa Basotho. Ke supe feela ka hore hona ha se qetelo, re sana le ho ea pele ka Bill ea The11th Amendment to the Costitution eo re filoeng tšepiso ea hore litaba tsa rona li tla tla li fella ka hará eona.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAMPRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, kea leboha.
Question that Tenth (10th) Amendment to the Constitution Bill, 2024 be read a second time put and agreed to.
The Tenth (10th) Amendment to the Constitution Bill, 2024 accordingly read a second time.
MADAM-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister, ke kopa u re fetisetse mothating oa Komiti.
HON. MINISTER RAMOELETSI (Minister of Law and Justice): Kea leboha, Madam-President. I rise to move that the Senate resolves itself into Committee on the Bill forthwith,
I so Move.
Question Put and Agreed to. The Honourable Senate resolved itself into a Committee forthwith.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister, ke ne ke kopa hore u re tataise.
Pele ke fetela mono, Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa hore ke mpe ke le hlalosetse feela hore tsela eo re tl’o sebetsa ka eona ke eo re tla qala ka hore re sebetse litemana tse se nang lihlomathiso, ‘me ha re fihla ho tse nang le lihlomathiso re tla li tlola ebe re ntse re ea ho tseno tse se nang lihlomathiso. Ha re qeta re tla khutlela ho tse nang le lihlomathiso re tsebe ho li sebetsa ‘moho.
Letona le Khabane, ke kopa u re tataise ho tloha ho clauses 1 ho isa 4.
HON. MINISTER RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo ea Khabane. Ke ema mona ho hlahisa sehlomathiso sa Pele:
- e leng Sehlomathiso se buang ka Short Title and Commencement, sehlooho le ho kenya ts’ebetsong sehlomathiso sena sa leshome sa Molao oa Motheo sa 2024.
- Ke fetele ho Sehlomathiso sa Bobeli se buang ka Section 3, Official Languages, e leng Lipuo tsa Molao tse teng hajoale. Li peli, ‘me joale ho kenyeletsoa tse peli hape, e leng IsiXhosa le Sephuthi, ebile ho kenyelletsoa le puo e sebelisang matsoho (Sign Language).
- Ke tle ke fetele ho Sehlomathiso sa Boraro e leng Temana e ncha e kenang e leng 3A e buang ka Age of Majority moo re buang ka lilemo tsa motho ea ka ikemelang a nkuoe e se e se ngoana, ‘me re bua ka lilemo tsa ho tloha ka lilemo tse leshome le metso e robeli.
- Ke fetele Sehlomathisong sa bone moo re buang ka Renewing Session of Section 2A, Affirmative Action in Favour of Nationalized Groups moo e leng Sehlomathisong se kenyelletsang batho bao re ka reng ba phela le bokooa kapa ba sa itekanelang, ‘me se ba kenyelletsa e le batho bao re reng ke batho bao mohlomong ba sekisetsoang maphelong a bona. Ke sona Sehlomathiso sena seo re buang ka sona sa 20A.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke teka taba hore Clauses 1 ho isa 4 li eme ele karolo ea Sets’oantso sena sa molao, ‘me Litho li ka bua.
Ha Litho li le sieo ke kopa hore ke behe taba hore temana ea pele ho isa ho ea bone li eme ele karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa molao.
Question Put and Agreed to
MADAM PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister ke kopa re tlole 5 le 6 ebe re fetela ho 7 ho isa ho 11.
HON. MINISTER RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Sehlomathiso sena sa bosupa ke Sehlomathiso sa Section 24, se bua ka Interpretation and Savings e leng se hlalosang le ho hlakola Section 24 ena e neng e kenyellelitse Discipline Forces, ‘me ho kengoa National Security Agencies.
- Ke fetele Sehlomathisong sa Borobeli e leng Amendment of Section 65 on Clerks to Houses of Parliament and the Staff, ‘me mona Section 65 ea hlakoloa, ho kengoa e ncha e leng the Office of the Clerk to the Senate shall be the Office in the Parliamentary Service, hobane ba tloha mane moo e neng e le Public Service ba se ba tla tla ka mona moo re tl’o tla re ba le hoo re tla be re ho bitsa ka hore ke Parliamentary Service, ‘me e tla thehoa ka Molao under the Act of Parliament.
- Ebe re fetela ho Clause 9 eo eleng temana e ncha ea 65A ho e a ho 65B e buang ka Establisment of Parliament Service, eleng eona eane eo ke neng ke bua ka hore e tl’o tla e ba teng ho thusa ho tsamaisa mesebetsi ea Ntlo ena ea Paramente.
- Re tle re fetele ho Section 10 kapa Clause 10 e buang ka Sehlomathiso sa Mashome a Supileng: Power to Make Laws. Eona e reretsoe ho manolla hore na Paramente ha e etsa melao e tle e sebetse melao joang, e e pharallatse. Ke temena e pharalletseng e buang ka Functions of Parliament.
- Re fetele ho Sehlomathiso sa Leshome le Motso o mong ‘me sona ke Amendment ea Section 78 e buang ka mode of Exercise of Legislative Power.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke teka hore Clauses 7 to 11 li eme e le karolo ea sets’oantso sena sa molao, ‘me Litho li ka bua.
Ke ne ke lebelletse hore le tle le bue ho eona hoba e le ama haholo.
HON. SENATOR THEKO: Mohlomphehi, kea kholoa moo ke neng ke rata ho etsa – leha ke ntse ke botsa ntate Motsamai, ‘me a sitoa ho ntsoela khomo, ke taba ea Establishment of the new Parliamentary Independence kapa Parliamentary Service, which is a new feature ea Paramente, joale hore re tla ba le Paramente e tla ba le boikemelo, ‘me ke ne ke ema feela ka ho thoholetsa bosebeletsi bo joalo hore ha e le mona le Ntlo ea National Assembly e amohetse taba ena ke taba e kholohali e tl’o etsa hore Paramente e-be le boikemelo le boitsamaiso e se na ts’usumetso le taolo ea Executive ka lebaka la hore ‘muso o moholo o na le ho senya kapa ho laola Paramente hore ebe league ea eona.
This alone e etsa hore Paramete e-be le boikemelo ka ho hira bosebeletsi le ho iketsetsa determine mosebetsi ka boeona. Kannete ke ema feela hore ena taba eona ke tabahali eo re lokelang ho e aka.
Ho tla bonahala hore Section 6 eo re e tlotseng ke tla tla ke tl’o beha taba ea the Annual budget eo re tla re ke eona e tl’o tla e apesa boikemelo ba Paramente ha re se re na le eona ea hore 3% (three percent) of the National or Annual budget ebe kabo e abeloang Paramente hore e tsebe ho sebetsa.
Mohlomphehi, ke koba hanyane hore ke tle ke tsebe ho itokisetsa ho loetsa leleme la ka hore ke tle ke tsebe ho tsamaea feela ka nako eno. Ha ke batle ho itja monate esale joale, hobane ke sa tl’o ala leleme phate tabeng eno.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, re ts’oanetse Setho ha se buile re openg, hobane o ee a be a nts’itse lishoto.
[Liatla]
HON. SENATOR KANETSI: Kea leboha, Madam President.
Ke ne ke batla ho tlatsa haholo taba ena ea boikemelo ba Paramente ka Matlo ana a mabeli. Ke ka makhetlo ere ha re re re etsa mosebetsi ebe hothoe chelete ha e-eo, joale re batla ho tsoa re ea Makaleng kapa re ea Litsing tsa lits’ebeletso re batla ho chakela likhoebo re bone na ho ntse ho etsahal’ang, re bone na taba ea ts’alo morao ea ts’ebetso ea Makala esitana le lits’ebeletso tse sebeletsang sechaba li tsamaea joang. Joale ebe ho thoe chelete ha e-eo!
Ke ts’epo ea ka hore nakong eo joale Ntlo ena ea Paramente e seng e ikemetse e seng e bile e na le Budget ea eona kannete re tla bonahala re lokela ho etsa mosebetsi, ‘me joale sechaba se tla bona hore na ehlile re etsa mosebetsi, hobane joale hangata re ne re tla be re ntse re ipata ka hore Budget ha e-eo. Lekhetlong lena ke lumela hore re tla be re na le chelete, ‘me re tla bonahala hore na re sebeletsa sechaba hakae re le basebeletsi.
Kannete ke thabetse taba ena – haholo ha Clause ena e feta tjena ke e thabetse haholo.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR S.MOTSAMAI: ‘Me Molula setulo, Litho tse Khabane, ntumelleng, hle, nke ke kene tabeng ea hore ho bohlokoa haholo hore karolelano ea mosebetsi e bonahale ka mekhoa le liketso, re lule holim’a eona, hobane ha ho se ho na le taba ena ea hore ho be le bohlanka ba Ntlo ea Paramente ere thusa haholo hore lits’iea tsane tsa rona tse tharo tseo re li tloaetseng tseo eleng Executive,Judiciary ekasitana le Legislature, li bonahale li sielana moeli, ekaba ka bohlanka, ekaba ka li policy, ekaba ka ts’ebetso – taba eno e bohlokoa haholo.
E sa ntsane ele joalokaha re tloaetse tsena tse tharo ka moso ho tla hlaha ea bone etlabe ele hore re re re lits’iea tse hahang Puso ea sechaba sa Basotho. Litsamaiso tsa naha ea Lesotho re hloka li be ‘ne; ebe tsela ena eo re buang ka eona ea moetlo eo re reng e hauoe ka Bosotho, e hauoe ka Borena ba rona, joale e tl’o tla e tlatseletsa tsena tse ling. Tsela eno ha re ka e ts’oara hantle re tlabe re tseba ntho eo re tloaetseng ho e bitsa ka hore ke karolelano ea matla, re tseba ho tsitsa holim’a eona.
Ke taba ea bohlokoa haholo ha re ka ra tsamaea ka litsela tseno tse joalo li tseba ho ts’ehetsana, ‘me ke hantle hore ebe re bile le temana ena, ebe e ba teng. Empa ha u sheba hape Clause 10 moo e buang ka taba ea hore ho be le taba eane e tla thehoa ea Parliament Budget office e bohlokoa haholo taba eno ea hore, ere leha ho uoa mosebetsing, leoto le leng le seke la ba mohaung oa leoto le leng. Ke hore Executive e se ke ea re kaha e ts’oere e etse mosebetsi oa eona oa ho bokeletsa, ke oa eona.
Ntlo ea Paramente e etse mosebetsi oa eona oa ho aba, joale ba abetsoeng ba etse mosebetsi oa bona oa ho tlaleha, oa to account litabeng tseno ka mokhoa o nepahetseng. Re tla be re na le bohlanka bo taolong. Ha ase a ka a o u fa a ba a u fa le bohlanka ha a bo batla ebe o tla ‘ne a bo hula ‘na ke nka ele taba ea bohlokoa e tla re thusa hore re ke re tlise mekhoa e mecha boinahanong bo bocha ba hore na taba eo re tloaetseng hore kre re ke separation of power na re etsa hore li nyalahane ka tsela ea mofuta ofeng.
Ke re ha re nka taba ena ea bohlanka re qala ka eona, re nka taba ena ea budget control eo re tlabe re bua ka eona ke bona ele taba ea mohato o motle haholo, ‘me kea tlatsa.
HON. MADAM PRESIDENT: Hon Minister, ke ne ke kopa Ntate ka lebaka la hobane ha re tsamaisa Bill ha re nke batho ba -che, mohlomong Litho tse ling li tla be li se li tseba tsa Komiti, but you need to be a bit detailed, hobane le Hansard ho ts’oanetsoe ho buuoe litaba tseno li le joalo ha re ile clause by clause. Also the media ba ts’oanetse ho tseba hore na hantle e ne e ntse e r’eng.
Ke bona eka like Clause 11 re ne re ts’oanetse ho bonts’a hore na e r’eng hantle?
E-ea, Ntate!
Ele hore e r’eng?
E be detailed. U ka e…
HON. MINISTER RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Ke bue ka Clause 11 ena e buang ka hore e fa Paramente matla kapa e eketsa matla a Paramente hore ere ha hoka hoa etsahala hore Paramente e felloe ke nako molao o es’o fete for Royal Assent e tle o fe hore molao o joalo o tl’o qetelle o fitile, ‘me o fumane Royal Assent.
Ke bonts’e hore The National Assembly may, by resolution, reinstate a Bill that lapsed when Parliament was prorogued or dissolved. Eleng taba eo ke neng ke bua ka eona, ‘me e re The King may assent a Bill that has been passed by the two Houses, presented to him after prorogation or dissolution of Parliament.
Ke Clause 11 e chong joalo hore e fa matla hore Bill e ileng ea oa ka nako eo e ntseng e sebetsoa ere ha e ka ea fela – Paramente ea koala es’o fihle ho Motlotlehi e tle e tsebe hore e fihle ho Motlotlehi, ‘me Motlotlehi a tle a e fetise, ‘me ebe Molao.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Ke ne ke re na ebe Letona le Khabane le uena na le bile le courtesy ea ho hlopha hore re tle re be le lunch hore re tle re tsebe ho sebetsa longer ka lebaka la mosebetsi o ka rona? Na ebe le hopotse ho re hlabela khoho re bone na re ka ja joang ha re ntse re tsoela pele?
HON. MADAM PRESIDENT: Re hlabile khoho, Setho se Khabane. Letona le Khabane ke mpa ke (Litho tse Khabane, ne ke kopa re mamelaneng, hobane taba ena e tl’o le ama nako e telele ea tsela ea passage ea li Bill le tsona lintho tsena)
ke mpa ke ipotsa feela hore na Letona le Khabane ha lea bona, boikeletsong ba lona ha le etsa Bill ena, hore le ka etsa consider nako eo ebang Motlotlehi eena o batla ho khutlisa a e khutlise a sa e etsa assent? Re tle re e ts’oareng joang? Ke ea pele.
Ea bobeli, ke ntse ke ipotsa! Kapa joale ho se ho bua ‘na ho feta? – Ke bona ekare re ts’oanetse re e phethole ele hore ho tle ho tsebahale hantle hore na re tsamaea re le bakae ho tloha mona, ‘me le eona nako e ‘ngoe u tl’o fumana horeBill re ne re ka re Paramente ea leshome e ne e shape pere re re re qeta Bill e se ke ea oelella, ‘me ho ne ho ka etsahala hore ha re tseba hore ha e oeleletse etlanne e tsohe kamor’a likhoeli tse peli ebe re re re e siea e ntse ele ka Senateng ka mona.
Ha re etsa specify feela hore it can only be resuscitated by the National Assembly does it mean hore joale re tla e khutlisetsa back to the National Assembly and then e il’o qaloa hape e khutlisetsoe ka moo kapa re qetella ka moo re qetetseng teng?
Ke bona eka e ne e tla be e hlalositse litaba.
HON. SENATOR RAMOELETSI: Ke bona ekare ehlile haeka eaba Paramente, e se eke ea eba feela National Assembly e tla be e nepahetse. Kea leboha.
HON. MADAM PRESIDENT: kea leboha, Setho se Khabane. Ua tseba ‘na ke ne ke re ka lebaka la hore re se re sa etsa capture ele an amendment can’t we take it as typo ebe re chencha ntho eo feela to Parliament, please?
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: ‘Me Molula Setulo, Tafole ekasitana le Bahlomphehi ka Ntlong, taba ena ha ke tsebe na ebe, Hounorable Minister, na e ka qetella joang. Ke ne ke ba tla hore ke e nkele holim’a ntho eo u e buileng, Molula Setulo, ea hore ho nts’o ho etsahala hore Bill e se ntse e fihlile stage sa Royal Assent u fumane hore e thulana le bothata e le on that stage seno, feela ha ho bonahale hore na mechanism ea hore e khutle…
Ke ho re ke ne ke cho joalo! Re ile ra ba le eona e neng e bua ka flour crossing, e bua ka eng –we don’t know where it is but e ne e se e le stage sa Royal Assent. Whether that could be in the act of Parliament kapa ea hlaha ele the other one of the procedures tse ka thoko tse tl’o thusa ho arabela taba eno – hobane re lula joale re se re sa tsebe.
Ke ho re ho kanna hoa etsahala hore ebe ntho e kholo ea etsahala, ebe uena le ‘Muso le ba le takatso ea hore, oho Ntate Rabasotho, se k’a hlola u etsa Royal Assent; ha e khutle, ebe e tseba ho khutla stage seno. Re na le mokhoa feela oa hore li ee, empa hore li khutle lia hana. Perhaps that could also be thought through hore etle e tsebe ho re thusa hore re tsebe ho sebetsa hantle ka eona. Kea leboha
HON.MADAM PRESIDENT: Hon. Minister Ntate Letona, u ne u thuse Letona pel’a hau moo.
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ke na le Bahlanka mane bao ke kopang hore ba nthuse ka ho nketsetsa koantsanyane ele hore re thusane. Ke bona eka taba eo Mohlomphehi a buang ka eona ha e hlabane, e ntse e ka nepahala hore e ka kena.
HON. SENATOR M. KANETSI: Mohlomphehi, ke kopa ho botsa potso eo ke bonang eka either e lebalehile ha ho ntse ho buisanoa ka taba ena. Ekare mokhoa oo ho entsoeng frame ka eona, ekare nako eohle re lebelletse hore the King will ascent. Joale ke ne ke re na ho na le monyetla oa hore a ka fumana hore, e-e, Bill ena ehlile ha ke e utloe hantle, eaba eena o re ha a e saenele? Na is there any provision moo eena a ka re’ng ha a e lumele? Kapa re nka feela hore o tla etsa ascent Bill ea mofuta oo? Hoa hae ke ho saena feela, e le Mong’a Naha o saena feela, ha ho na moo a ka re’ng ha a utloe hantle? Ha e ea lebaleha taba eo?
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Taba eo, ke lumela e se e ntse e le catered for ka har’a Molao oa Motheo-o seng o ntse o phela.
MADAME CHAIRPERSON: Na u utloile hantle? Hon. Senator, Minister o re eo u buang ka eona – eona is catered for in the Constitution. Re mpa re ne re ntse re re rea u shebela mona. Le Ofisi kea kholoa e tla tata, hobane e teng, e u fe ka mono ka moo ntlha ena e hlahang ka teng.
Re emele koantsanyane kapa re tsoele pele, Setho se Khabane?
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke kopa ena re se ke ra e etsa e le typo, e tle e kene e le Amendment.
MADAME CHAIRPERSON: E leng ho re re etsa suspend that Clause, re nka re sa e etsa, re tla tla e etsa with an Amendment?
Clauses 7 – 10: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 11 and 12: Skipped.
Clauses 13 – 17.
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Temana ea 13
Temana ena ea 13 ke eo re etsang Sehlomathiso ho Section 96 e neng e bua ka ‘Principal Secretaries’, e leng ‘Bangoli ba Baholo ba Makala’. Re hlakola Temana eno ea 96 kamoo e neng e le kateng, ‘me re e etsa bocha e se e bua ka ‘Government Secretary’ e leng ‘Mongoli e Moholo oa ‘Muso’.
E bolela hore na Mesebetsi ea hae ke efe, le ho re na hore o tla fuoa ‘Mosebetsi’ kapa ‘Appointment’ ea hae na taba eo e tla etsoa joang. E bile e mo fa hore o tla ba le ‘Contract’ ea lilemo tse hlano tseo haeba a sebetsa hantle lilemo tseo li ka eketsoang.
Re fetele ho Clause 14.
MADAME CHAIRPERSON: Letona le Khabane, re bona eka Lekala la hau le tla re tsamaisa ka bolutunyana ba hore ke hona re ntseng re romelloa Lihlomathiso tse ling, tseo ebileng u fumanang hore re se re bile re fetile Litemana tseno. Joale rea ipotsa hore na ha re sa ka ra li etsa consider, re tl’o li sebetsa joang?
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke re ke lumela hore Lihlomathiso tse tlang Tafoleng, leha li hlaha ho Bahlanka, li lokela ho feta le ho ‘na. Joale haeba li sa feta ho ‘na, re nke li sa kena.
MADAME CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, kannete mosebetsi ona oa Tenth Amendment ke mosebetsi o moholo haholo, oo re lokelang ho mamellana. Ke bona eka – ua bona ebile le nako e se e ntse e le 12:30? Ruri hore re tle re tsebe ho tla hloekisa taba eo – eo re bonang eka e molemo – ‘me le bona batho ba Ofisi ba tsebe ho kopana le Letona la bona, le ba lumelle hore ba li kenye. Ruri re lokela ho phomotsa Ntlo hakhuts’oanyane, kapa re se re bile re tla kena nakong ea tinare, ebe ka mor’a tinare re qala Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Ke e etsa Suspend ke le hona ka mona ka Komiting. Ha re khutla re khutlela hona ka mona ka Komiting.
The House was Suspended from 12:32 p.m. until 2:30 p.m.
CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, ha re ea phomolong ea lijo tsa mots’eare re ne re le Clause 13. Na u ne u se u e qetile, Ntate?
HON. MIN. R. RAMOELETSI: Re ne re le Clause 13, Mohlomphehi. Re ne re se re e qetile.
HON. SENATOR S.K. MASUPHA (POINT OF ORDER): Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Ntlha ea Tsamaiso eo ke neng ke hlaha ka eona ke hore na ebe Ntlo e hlokometse hore nako ena eo re qalang ka eona, ena ea 14:30hrs, hore na e be re kekeng ra hla ra itlhopha esale hona joale Mohlomphehi, na, le pele nako e otla, ka hore na re tla sebetsa ho fihlela neng e le hore re tle re tsebe ho tsoela-pele hape hosane, Mohlomphehi?
Ke Ntlha ea Tsamaiso eo ke emang ka eona, haeba ke lumelloa, Mohlomphehi.
(Pause)
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Setho se Khabane, Ntlha ea hau ea Tsamaiso ke utloisisa feela hore e ne e le hore re tsebe hore re itlhopheng. e
E-e, kajeno re tla sebetsa ho fihlela ka hora ea bohlano, hobane re ntse re e-na le letsatsi la hosane e leng la Labone ho tsoela-pele ka Bill.
Ee Ntate, le ho isa Labohlano haeba re tla be re e-s’o qete re tla kopa Ntlo ho re thusa hore re eketse letsatsi, empa ho fihlela hona joale re ts’epa hore hosane re tla be re se re le pejana.
Kea leboha, Setho se Khabane.
(Pause)
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Ee, o re o ne a se a le Clause 13.
Re ne re itse Clauses 13 – 17, but o ne a re o batla ho khutlela Clause 11.
Honourable Minister, u ne u bua ka ho khutlela Clause 11?
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: E-e, Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke mpa ke re re ile ra e tlola hobane e ne hloka ho etsoa Amend, empa joale re ne re se re le Clause 13 – 17.
Joale ke re ke ne ke se ke qetile ka Clause 13, ke lokela ho ea Clause 14.
CHAIRPERSON: Tsoela-pele, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR M.M. MOSHOESHOE (POINT OF ORDER): Ntlha ea Tsamaiso eo ke emang ka eona ke hore re ile ra etsa break earlier for lunch hobane ho ne ho e-na le pherekano ea hore li-Amendment tse ling li ntse li kena ka Bohlanka.
Ebe ha se nepo hore u ke u re khobe mats’oafo pele re kena litabeng tsee tsaMohlomphehi Letona? Ke hobane joale rona haesale re tsitsipana ka nako eno hore na Bahlanka ba sebetsa joang against Mohlomphehi Letona.
Joale ha a se a qala a se a feta feela tjee re sa batalatsa mabala o etsa joang? Kapa le e lokisitse?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Letona le Khabane, hlalosa hore na le buile joang le Ofisi ea hau.
HON. MIN. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Ka ‘nete taba eo ba ileng ba e etsa, ke kholoa e ile ea e-ba phetisetsano ea melaetsa, ba mpotile ka thoko, empa re e shebisane taba eno eaba re lumellana hore lintlha tseno tseo ba neng ba li fetisa ba ne ba mpa ba re feela hona le li-typing error, ea mpa eaba taba eno e fetela ho Setulo, e ne e tlameha hore e be e tlile ho ‘na.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi ba ka.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Kea leboha, Letona le Khabane, ke kopa hore u tsoele-pele.
Clauses 14 – 17
HON. MIN. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Clause 14
Ke ne ke kopa hore ke fetele Clause 14 eo e leng Amendment of Section 97, e buang ka Government Secretary. Mona re hlakola hore e se ke ea e-ba Government Secretary empa e tle e be PermanentSecretary, hobane in the old Act e ne e hlahile e batla e qala ka li-PrincipalSecretary, e be e tla ho Government Secretary. Empa e le ho e lokisa hore e eme hantle ho se ke hoa qaloa ka ba banyenyane; re ts’oanela ho qala ho ba baholo.
Ha re bua ka li-Principal Secretary tsena le Government Secretary, mesebetsi ea bona kaofela, joalo-joalo, roles and responsibilities ha li na ho hlaha kahar’a Tokomane ena, empa mona ho mpa ho bonts’oa hore ke litaba tsa hore na ba tla hiroa joang le hore nako ea bona ea khiro e se e tloha ho 3 years e se e tla ba 5 years.
Clause 15
Mohlomphehi, Clause 15 mona re bua ka Chapter 10 e buang ka Finance (Lichelete). Mona re kopa hore re hlakole li-Section tsena tse latelang: e leng Section 110, 111, 112, 114, 115, 116, 117, ‘me re tle re e ngole ka mokhoa o latelang: hore Chapter 10, Finance e tla be e kenyellelitsoe ho 110 mono e buang ka Consolidated Funds.
Ha re feta mono, hona mono licheleteng re tle re bonts’e hore 111 e bonts’a hore na Consolidated Funds li tla nts’oa joang ka hare ho Mokotla oa ‘Muso oa Lichelete. E kenyelletsa Contingency Fund ebile e kenyelletsa le hore na bahlanka ba tla putsoa joang (remuneration of certain officers).
E kenyelletsa le public debt. LeOfisi eane e neng e bitsoa ka hore ke ea Auditor General, e se e fetola boemo bono e se e tla bitsoa Supreme Audit Institution.
E kenyelletsa le hore ho thehoa hoa Central Bank ho kenelle le hona ka hare ho Tokomane ena.
Ke tsona litaba tse hlahang kahar’a Clause ena e buang ka Lichelete hore establishment of Central Bank of Lesotho e kenelle le taba e buang ka meputso ea li-Commission (Salaries and Remuneration Commission). Ke Commission e shebaneng le meputso ea bahlanka.
Clause 17
Ke fetele ho Sehlomathiso sa 17 e leng Amendment of Chapter 11(a), e buang ka Human Rights Commission. The Constitution is amended by deleting Chapter 11(a). E se e tla ngoloa ka mokhoa ona oo e ngoetsoeng ka oona hore Chapter 11(a) e bua ka Setsi sa Litokelo tsa Mantlha tsa Botho, e leng eona e tla tla e theha Setsi sena ka Molao e le hore re bone hore motho e mong le e mong litokelo tsa hae li tla ts’ireletseha, ‘me ka hare ho eona ho na le hore na li-function tsa Commission ena na li eme joang, le hore na ba tla ba bakae, le hore na theho ea bona e tla ema joang. E boetse e kenyellelitse hore li-Commissioner li tla hiroa ho shebiloe makhabane afeha li hiroa.
Mohlomphehi, ke fihlile qetelog ea Chapter 17.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Question that Clauses 13 to 17 stand part of the Bill, put and agreed to.
Clauses 19 – 20 skipping Clause 18
(Pause)
HON. MIN. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Clause 19
Sehlomathisong sena sa leshome le metso e robong, ka Public Service Commission, re tla hlokomela, Bahlomphehi, hore eona e se e ntse e phela, empa e le ho ntlafatsa tse ling tsa Litemana e le ho ntlafatsa Bosebeletsi ba Sechaba mona le mane. E kenyellelitse hore na ho tla hiroa batho ba bakae. Hajoale ho hlaha hore ho tla ba le Molula-Setulo le litho tse ‘ne. Ke eona ntlafatso e teng ka hare ho Public Service Commission.
Mesebetsi ea bona ka kakaretso e tla laoloa ke an Act of Parliament.
Kea leboha.
Meputso ea li Commissioner, salaries and renumerations of commissioners. Ke Commission e shebaneng le meputso ea bahlanka.
Ke tle ke fete ke fetele ho sehlomathiso sa bo 17 eleng Amendment 11A e buang ka Human Rights Commission, ‘me the Constitution is amended by deleting chapter 11A; e se e tla ngoloa ka mokhoa ona oo e ngotsoeng ka oona, ho re chapter 1, 11A e bua ka setsi sa Litokelo tsa Mantlha tsa Botho. Ke eona e tla tla e theha setsi sena ka molao ele hore re bone motho e mong le e mong litokelo tsa hae li baballeha, li sireletseha.
Ka hare ho eona ho na le hore na li-function tsa Commission na li eme joang, le hore na ba tla ba bakae le hore na thonyo ea bona e tla ema joang le hore na ba tla hiroa kapa ho shejoe makhabane afe ha ba hiroa li-Commissioner tseo.
Ke bona eka, Mohlomphehi, ke fihlile qetellong ea chapter 17.
kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ha ke teke taba hore clauses 13 to 17 li eme ele karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao, ‘me Litho li ka bua.
Ke beha taba Litho tse Khabane hore clauses 13 to 17 li eme ele karolo ea Sets’oantso sena sa Molao.
QUESTION PUT AND AGREED TO
MADAM PRESIDENT: Letona le Khabane, re tl’o tlola 18 ebe re ea 19-21.
HON. MINISTER R . RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo.
Sehlomathiso sena sa 19 se bua ka Public Service Commission, ‘me re tla hlokomela, Bahlomphehi, eona e se e ntse e phela empa mona ke ho ntlafatsa tse ling tsa litemana hore ho ntlafatsoe bosebeletsi ba Sechaba; ho ntlafatsoa mona le mane hore na ho tla hiroa batho ba bakae.
Ha hajoale tjena ke bona eka mona ho hlaha hore ho tla ba le Molula Setulo le Litho tse 4, ‘me ka mokhoa o ts’oanang ke eona ntlafatso e teng kahare ho Public Service Commission. Mesebetsi ea bona ka kakaretso e tla laoloa ke an Act of Parliament.
Kea leboha.
Ke tle ke fetele ho Amendment ea Clause 20 e qalang ka hore e hlakola section 142. Mona section 142 e hlakola setsi kapa litsi tse ling tse kang sane sa Mohlahlobi e Moholo oa Libuka, hobane joale re se re buile ka hore e thehoa tlas’a institution eane eo re seng re e fetile, Mohlomphehi.
Mona Section 142 e ne e hlakoloa ke Amendment ena ea 20, ‘me re tla fetela ho 21 e buang ka Amendment of section 143 e buang ka Principal representatives of Lesotho abroad, eleng Bahlanka ba khetheloang ho ea emela Lesotho Machabeng.
Mona ke Sehlomathiso se matlafatsang bosebeletsi ba Lekala lena la Machabeng. Ke hona tabeng ena moo ho thoeng Bahlanka bana e hle ebe Bahlanka ba tla ba professional, ebe batho ba tla ba le makhabane.
Kea kholoa ke eona section ena e buang ka establishment le composition hore na e tla ahoa joang Office ena ea Foreign Service.
Ke bona eka ke tla ema hakaalo, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Appointments tseo u ka se li habanye feela?
Question thataClauses 19-21stand part of the Bill proposed.HON. SENATOR. S. MOTSAMAI: Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo le Litho tse Khabane ke rata ho ts’oaela lintlheng tse peli tse kholo o ke bonang hore kannete ke mosebetsi oa bohlokoa oo sechaba sena se ratileng hore se be le maikutlo holim’a sona; haholo taba ena ea Human Rights Commission.
Taba ena e na le lilemo e ntse hlopha Naha ena. Ke sure, Hon. Minister, le hona joale ha u tsoa Geneva ba ntse ba u botsitse ka eona hore na neng ke neng! Le hona ke e ts’oanelang hore e ipapise le taba eo re tloaetseng hore ke Paris Principle, ebe ka tsela eo re thusang hore ebe Human Rights Commission e tla ananeloa ke lefats’e ka mosebetsi le ka liketso tsa eona, ‘me ke nka kannete taba ena e le bohlokoa haholo.
Empa eo ke batlang le ho e tlatsa hape ke taba ena ea ho isa Bohlanka machabeng. Ntho eo ke e ratang ke eno ea motsoako – the hybrid! Taba ena ea hybrid e bohlokoa, hobane ho thoe leha batho ba ka ba ba isoa ka Lipolotiki tsa bona, feela mono kahar’a lets’olo la bona, kahar’a Mokha oa bona, kahar’a taba ea bona, ba ke ba tsoe ka li-merit.
Hona ka habo bona ka mono haeba merit ea teng ke ho haila, ache, ho hlakile mane ha ho hailoe a isoe moo li-merit tsa teng e tlaba ho haila mohlomong bo interior koana moo ho thoeng ke bo Home affairs. Bana ba hailang ba etsetsoe moo ba eang hona teng.
Ke ho re ba e sebetse joalo! Ke nka ‘na ele taba ea bohlokoa eo e ts’oanelang e shebe hore e mong le e mong hore na o tsoa kahar’a lekhotla leno la lipolotiki feela a tsamaisoe ka li merits tse hlokahalang mono moo a il’o etsoa deploy hona teng.
Taba ena e ka ba bohlokoa haholo, empa le teng ke ho khothatsa hore le teng u se ke ua nyahamisa the career diplomats tse ntseng li hola kahare ho Lekala la Foreign Affairs hore le bona ba tsebe ho qamaka.
Bo Ntate le bo ‘M’e le Bahlomphehi, ka kakaretso Lefats’e le fetohile. Lefats’e ho phela Lefats’e la likamano le batho ba utloisisang molemo le ts’uts’umetso likamanong. Linaha li le nyane, li le kholo, empa ha re qala re fihla tabeng ea persuasion ka mokhoa oa diplomacy ke taba e kholo haholo, ‘me ese eka ekare ha re se re ananetse taba ena Sehlomathiso sena joale re ka tla ka manane ts’ebetso a tsebang hore a otlolle, a otle batho ba tla kena mono. Le bona bana ba seng ba ntse ba le teng ka hare ho Foreign Service re boele hape re ba hlabolle ba utloisise hore thomo haele thomo e bolela eng.
Kannete ‘na ke bona eka ke Sehlomathiso se setle haholo, se tla hloka re lokise taba eno ea hore ho be le mokhoa ono oa ho bafubetsa, oa likoetliso tse tla tseba hore a ee mono.
Oho, hle, leha a hlotsoe ke Lebatooa re mo beheng hantle, re mo hlatsoe, a ratuoe, a tla tseba ho ea etsa mosebetsi o nepahetseng! ‘Na ke ee ke bone ba bang ba sa hlape le ho hlapa ha ba khutla mane moo ba hlotsoeng teng! Re ba beheng hantle ba tsebe ho ea etsa ntho e ba e batletsoeng teng.
HON. SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Ke ne ke re ke rata kannete ho ts’oaela tabeng ena e very fundamental, ea state le ho se lokisa hore state and its establishment ea hore one of the corner stone tsa Governance and the State and the Nation ke taba e hlokolosi haholo ena ea Human Rights Commission ,hobane ke moo, hee, sechaba ha u le in the family of Nations u lokeng hoba accountable ka mokhoa oo u ts’oereng litaba haeno.
Re ke re shebe se ntseng se etsahala ka Naha eo ho thoeng ke Israel kajeno haeba ke naha ntho eno kapa it’s just a gangster’s paradise ea batho ba inketseng naha, ka batho ba ntseng ba lelekisa joale ba sa tsebeng le ho nahana ka litaba tse ling haese hore ke bona! It is all about them!
Ha re ka ra nka that gesture ea hore re ka inahana joaloka Israel re tla be re lahlehile, hobane, che, mohlomong Israel e ea tseba hore it is protected by America and Europe hore e ka iketsetsa e sa hlokomele mokhoa oa human rights le litokelo tsa batho ba bang in general – the way they do.
Joale empa mona taba ena e se e kile ea choaboloa kapele ho e Moholo oa ka Morena oa Matsieng ha e ne e e President joaloka uena, Mohlomphehi, ea choaboloa ke the other House ka hore e lutse nako e telele ka mona, but we were gearing alarms ka ho etsa consult other stake holders, empa ba fihla ka tsela eno ea ho e phamola le ho e shoakolotsa, eaba e senyehile.
Empa bona Molimo o sebelitse ka tsela efeng; le kajeno ha e-s’o sebetse ke hona e tla tiea, ‘me rea e lebohela ha ele mona e tla tseba – hobane ke hona moo status sa naha se aparang nkoe kapa lekoko la botho mafats’eng a mang.
Ha ke qeta ho cho joalo ke mathela ho ena eo Honourable Minister a qetang ho e teka ea bosebeletsi ba sechaba, lipolotiki le the right to participate by the people. Ho na le batho ba se nang takatso kapa lenyora la ho ba karolo ea lipolotiki feela ba rata ho sebeletsa naha ea bo-bona ka bohlanka le boitelo.
Batho ba bangata, they accept politics hobane ba bona hore ha ba na boikhethelo ha e se ho kena lipolotiking. This incumbent Prime Minister ka mokhoa oo a neng a le ka teng pele a kena hantle pusong o ne a itse o tl’o koala ambassador missions tse bonang li se na molemo ho naha ena ea Lesotho.
Hoa bonahala ba ile ba mo joetsa hore, ‘haeba u batla ho oa u n’u bapalle mono hoba ke mesebetsi eo re e batlang le bana ba rona le basali ba rona. That is why we see other people who are parliamentarians sending their women, wives, spouses kantle ka ho hloka lihlong.
Ho hoholo ebe ba ba isa mose ebe liofisiri tse ling tse ngata kahar’a naha ena ea Lesotho – le kajeno ntate Tona-Kholo o ipatetse taba eona eo, o iphapanyelitse eona. O fa batho ba bang mesebetsi ea ho ba li-ambassador kahar’a naha ena, e leng hore ho leba to the embassy Lesotho mona e ntse e le papali joalo ka nako e fetileng.
Ha ho na letho leo a le entseng! E ne e le takatso ea hae, I suppose, empa ka lebaka la pressure ea hore ha u busa ha u buse u le mong u busa le likoata, le batho ba bang ba tla u khannela ho etsa ntho eo u sa e batleng, e le bona ba nyoretsoeng matla ao, ba se ba sa tsotelle taba ea hau.
Ke ntho e hlabisang lihlong ena eo a e entseng to place batho a ntsa ba nka a ba isa, ba bang ba sala ba ts’oere liofisi! Ha ba qeta they sent their wives and their children mose koana hore lelapa le je le hoebeletse! Ke ts’obotsi eo re reng e ntse e le a very big problem eo re ntseng re hulana ka eona re tsoela-pele ka eona, hobane ha ho na letho leo a le lokisitseng!
Ka ‘nete Mofokeng o re phoqile moo ha re fihla tabeng eo, we have to tell him that, ho re mona teng o re phoqile hoba o ntse u tsoela pele ka the legacy eane ea pele ea ho isa batho mose ka lebaka la hore feela ba haila kapa ba bina lipina tsa hau; o tlohile mane moo u neng o eme teng, u teng hape litabeng tsena!
Ekaka ha re bua ka litaba tsena ka ‘nete re tla hle re khethe ka nepo ea hore batho ba bang e se ke ea e-ba batho ba lipolotiking kapa ba ‘musong re khethe the career diplomats tse il’o emela naha ho etsa mosebetsi o hlakileng.
Ka ‘nete we lack them hona joale! Ke taba e bohloko haholo, empa ha ke na bua mona ka fufuleloa ebile ke ntse ke noa kofi kea tloha pelo e ema.
Ke e ‘ngoe ea litaba tse nkhathatsang matla, tse nkhalefisang hore ho fapana le seo a neng a se buile ka ‘nete o fapane le sona hole! O nts’oabisitse, empa ha se hore re tla be re se re mo fetohela; ke sa mo shebile. Feela ke bona a nts’a nkisa moo re tl’o qabana le eena, hobane I will not tolerate ts’obotsi ena eo a ntseng a sebetsa ka eona.
Ke ne ke re, Mohlomphehi, ke mpe ke omanye clause ena hore it’s very pivotal and so important, feela re ntse re bapala ka eona, kaha re na le batho – quality people are being left out ho nkoa bakhotsi ba isitsoe mose ho ea bapala ka liofisi!
Ba neng ba le teng maoba mona ha ke ba sheba ke re a k’u ba boneng lintho tse tlisitsoeng mona! Hothoeba ne ba hlahisitsoe thelefishining ho thoe ba tsoa linaheng tsena tse ling! Papali feela, ha u nahana na Lesotho le na le batho ba joang!
kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR M. MOKHATHALI: Clause ena ea Foreign Affairs, ka ‘nete le ‘na ke utloa e nthabisa hore ebe ho na le amendment tse tla ke li etse hore e ke e nke boemo bo phahameng, hobane ha re ntse re hola re le bana ha re ne re utloa ho thoe motho ke ambassador re ne re tseba e le mosebetsi oa boemo bo holimo haholo, e le batho ba hlomphehang.
Ke hopola le libukeng tsa rona mona re ne re bala ka tsona hore na moemeli oa Lesotho kae ke mang, e le batho ba hlomphehang. Joale empa morao tjena re ne re se re bona eka ha u ka sebetsa seea-le-moeeng feela, joale ua komela ‘muso o litulong ua o sireletsa, hore na u na le botsebi ba mofuta ofeng u se u tla romelloa mose koana ho se ho thoe u il’o sebetsa machabeng.
E leng hore ka ‘nete le bacha ba bangata kahar’a naha ena ba ne ba se ba ntse ba batla ho sebetsa li-ea-le-moeeng hore ba tle ba sebetse teng e tle e re ha ba buelella ‘muso ebe o sa romelloa machabeng koana.
Re utloa hape – ‘me taba ena e ne e khathatsa bacha ba Basotho matla ka ‘nete ba ithutileng ka litaba tsa machabeng, hore, e-e, ho ne ho nkoa batho feela bao u ipotsang hore na ha motho h’a tseba ho bua seea-le-moeeng feela a se na letho a sa isoa mose – ebile re utloa morao tjena hore e ka ‘na eaba a le mong o tla etsa mosebetsi linaheng tse ka bang tharo kapa tse fetang bohlano! So, motho u ipotsa hore na motho ea sa tsebeng le ho ts’oara computer a e shebisang holimo ha ts’oanela ho e shebisa tlaase o ne a il’o etsa joang!
Potso ke hore na haeka koa ha se re utloa morao tjena ekare mesebetsi e mono ke ho ea batlela Lesotho metsuntsunyane, lintho tse molemo tseo e kareng ha motho a le mono eaba rea bona hore ka lilemo tseo a li lutseng mono Lesotho le unne molemo, joale
ka ‘nete ha ho e-s’o romelloa motho feela ea tsebang ho inanatha seea-le-moeeng! Ache, joale taba ena e se e re makalitse haholo, ‘me rea leboha hore lekhetlong lena ka ‘nete ho tla ke ho shejoe batho ka makhabane le hore ba se ke ba re tlotlolla. Ke belaela le machabeng koana ho ne ho se ho ntse ho ipotsoa hore na ebe Lesotho koa ha ho na batho ba rutehileng haeba ho tla nkoa batho ba mofuta oo ba isoe machabeng!
Ka ‘nete ba bang e ne eba ba il’o inoella joala haholo; re se re tumme ka hore re batho ba taoang haholo machabeng!
Re lebohela clause ena hore e tle e ke e busetse Bosebeletsi ba Machabeng seriti sane sa pele seo re neng re se tseba mehleng ea Morena Leabua.
Kea leboha.
Question put and agreed to.
Clauses 24-29, Skipping 22 and 23
HON. MIN. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi.
Ha re e fumane ke page 36, ‘me ke Sehlomathiso sa 24 seo e leng a new insertion e kenyelellitseng 152 A,B&C e buang ka liofisi tsena tse latelang: The Auditor General, Ombudsman, Members of Human Rights Commission, Members of Lesotho Independent Anti-corruption and Ethics Commission, Members of Public Service Commission hore na ba tla etsoa appoint joang ho ea mosebetsing, ke mang, joang le hore na ke nako e kae eo ba tlang ho e khetheloa ho kena mosebetsing oo le hore na ba tla tlosoa joang. Ke clause ena ea 124. Ke hore hape ba fuoa nako ea lilemo tse 7 tse sa nchafatsoeng, joale ebe h’a e qetile e chaile o ea hae.
Re fetele ho 25. Le eona ke insertion e ncha 153 A e buang ka melao ea machaba.
Litumellano le li office hore Paramente e lokela e nke karolo nakong eo ebang ‘Muso o ka lakatsa ho tekena litumellano le linaha tse ling kapa machaba a mang. Ke sona se buuoang mona, Bahlomphehi ba ka.
Re tle re fetele Page 41 e buang ka ‘Amendment to Section 154’
Interpretation.Mona Sehlomathiso sena se eketsa Litlhaloso hore na ha ho thoe Mosotho ho boleloa eng. Ke ho re e kenyeletse eona taba eno e bolelang hore na ha re re Mosotho re re eng, esitana le bo litaba tsa ha ho buoa ka motho oa ‘m’e kapa oa ntate joang joang ke Page 41.
Re fetele Page 42, C lause 27. Chapter 15 e bua ka ‘Transitional and Temporary Provisions’. Mona re bua ka melao e ntseng e le teng, re re e tla nyalana le eo re reng e tla nyalanoa le melao e mecha e le ho kenngoa tsébetsong. Mona re bua ka hore mohlomong re ee re bue ka mona hore Melao ena ha e se e fetile, na e ee be na ho tla sebetsoa joang.
Re fetele ho 28. Mona ke moo re buang ka ‘Amendment of Section 163’ moo re buang ka hore ‘Existing Public Officers’ moo ho Constitution ho tla etsoa delete section 163 and e be e tla ema ka mokhoa o reng: ‘Existing Public Officers and Institutions’.
Mona ke moo re reng batho ba tl’a beng ba ntse ba le teng kahar’a liOffice tsena tse kholo, e le hore ha Molao ona o kena tsébetsong, ebe na ho tla etsahala eng ka bona hore ba tsebe ho tsoela pele mosebetsing. Hase hore ha Molao ona o kena tsébetsong ho tla be se ho thoe ba ee hae.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Order!
Setho se Khabane, ke hlokomela hore 29 ke Schedule, ‘me procedurally li etsoa ha re se re qetile li-clause tsohle le li-Amendments tsa tsona. So, sisinya holim’a Clauses 24 to 28 feela.
HON. MINISTER RAMOELETSI: Ke sisisnya hore Ntlo ena e Khabane e amohele li-Clause tsena tsa 24 ho ea ho 28.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Ke teka taba, Litho tse Khabane hore Clauses 24 ho isa 28 li eme, ebe Karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao, ‘me Litho li ka bua.
Question proposed
HON SENATOR DR. T LEBESE: Kea leboha, ‘Mé Molula Setulo. Ke ne ke mpa ke re hona ho ena ea 25, Hon. Minister, ka uena ‘M’e Molula Setulo, ka ‘The International Laws and the Agreements’ e batla e totobetse haholo, kea kholoa in terms of three Treaties and the Agreements assigned by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, ho re taba eo e tataisoe ke Paramentse, ‘me ho nepahetse hore e be joalo e b’e le integument ea Act of Parliament, and that is not a problem.
Ke bona hona le ho hong ho tsetetsoeng ho ‘2c’ moo ho thoeng: ‘Obtain an approval by the Resolutions of both Houses of Parliament’. Ke hoban’eng re sa beha full stop moo, ‘M’e Molula Setulo? Why do we have to qualify? Ke Page 40! Ke hobaneng re tla tlameha ho e etsa qualify ka hoo ho ngoetsoeng moo empa e se e ntse ele ntho e etsahalang?
The three Treaties and Agreements will be Signed ho re li fete Paramenteng; there will be an Act of Parliament ho tataisa taba e joalo, ‘me moo e bang Matlo a Mabeli a Paramente h’a lumellane,
a Resolution e se e nts’e le teng, ho s’o nts’o ho na le tsela eo ho sebetsoang ka eona moo Matlo a Mabeli h’a sa lumellane hore leha eba ho na le li-Amendment tse etsoang ke ne ke re na do we necessarily put it down, ebe mohlomong re re where the Resolution by the two Houses of the Parliament fails to occur, given such the provisions stipulated by Standing Order No. 62. The Resolution(s) by the National Assembly shall prevail ultimaltely? Re tlameha re be re ngole?
HON.SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: ke lebohe, hle, ‘M’e Molula Setulo. Ka ‘nete ‘na ne ke sheba taba ena e amanang le litsi tsena tsa Ombudsman le Auditor General le taba ea Corruption Ethics Commission le Public Service Commissions, hore tsela ena ea recruitment ke bona e le ntlha ea bohlokoa haholo.
Bahlomphehi, le hopole taba ena ea li-Reform e tla against background ea ho tlosa nepotism, lipolotiki ka taba ea khiro le eng, empa taba ena ea fair competitive merit based and transparent parliamentary seletion process ke bona e tl’o tla e re thusa ho tlosa leloapi leo esale re ntse re na le lona.
Ke mpa feela ke re ha e tla ele joalo, ha e re Parliamentary process kapa selection, hangata u tla bona ho sekameloa tabeng ea Ntlo ea National Assembly ka li-Komiti tsa eona; ke ho re ho se na Joint Committees lipakeng tsa hore joale rona re paramente e Matlo a mabeli!
Ke hore litsi tse kang tsena re etse consider that hybrid eo re nang le eona, e le hore ho tsebe ho bonahala relevancy ea Matlo ana tabeng ea tsébetso eo, hore bonyane tabeng eno e amanang le litaba tseno re be re le likomiti tse sebetsang ‘moho litabeng tsa ha ho tluoa ho recruitment ea litsi tse kang tsena.
‘Na ne ke ne ke bona ekare…
Ke ea u fa, Morena oa ka, ka uena Molula Setulo.
HON.SENATOR K.L.K THEKO: (Point of Order)
Ntate Hon. Senator a bua ka taba e kholohali e hlokang hore mohlomong re ke re e shebang and scrutinize it. Ke bona eka haesale litaba tsena li etsoa word ka ntle ho mabota a Ntlo ena, moo ke bonang eka Ntlo ena e itima monyetla oa eona oa ho lokisa moo ba bonang ho na le mathata.
Ke hore ke bua hantle hore Matlo ana a mabeli ha hothoe Parliament ekare ho etsoa refer to National Assembly, empa le kahare ho National Assembly taba ke hore na ho extra, that they choose that Committee that does the job, nang e be hase moo ‘Muso o rakallang ka hore ke eona e nang le matla, ke eona e nang le lipalo na, ‘Muso o ka ikhethela batho ba oona eaba ba ntse ba tsoela pele ka tsela eno?
Taba ena rona bao e saleng re lula pel’a lipuso, ke hore ho lula pel’a tsona – ho li bona ha li ntse li etsa mosebetsi, ha esale re tseba hore batho ha ba busa ba rata ho tseka matla le ho amoha batho ba bang tokelo ea ho etsa participate that right.
The participation is very thin in the sense that ha u le motho oa Opposition, you are marginalized. Joale a k’u njoetse na u bona eka ekare ha ho thoe ka paramenteng re se bile re ntse retseba hore e tla ba ka National Assembly. Ekaba u e khetha hore e tla ba li-Komiti tse ts’oanang ka tsela efe, hore li tle li tsebe ho etsa mosebetsi oo na?
HON SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: kea leboha, ‘mé Molula Setulo. E batla e le thata, hobane mona e se e hlaha e le an Act of Parliament, ‘me lea tseba joale ha re qala ho an Act of Parliament ke mane moo leha Ntlo ena ekaba ea bua ho tla iphetela hore na bane ba etsa prevail ka maikutlo afe, feela ha ho sebetsoa moo litaba li lokisoang, ho fetoloang litloaelo tse fetileng ho ka tseba hore nakong eo ho thehoang likomiti – ke ‘nete ka mane li tsamaea ka proportionality ea representation e teng ka National Assembly, ho re na li tlabe li eme joang.
Joale empa Komiti eno e tla beng e etsoa charge for this, eka tseba hore e boele hape hore ho nkoe Litho tse ling ka mona, tseo le tsona li ka nts’ang boemeli ebe Komiti eno ke eona e tla sebetsana le taba ena ea khiro eo ho buoang ka eona mona.
Ke hobane bothata boo re ntseng re tl’o ba le bona ua tseba ke hore ha re tlohella ho na le mebuso e meng e senang litlhong, e tla sebelisa bongata ba bona, hobane ka har’a komiti ba ba bangata ebe joale ha ba sa sheba taba ena ea competence ea merit based ea transparency, e be le se le utloa feela ho s’o ho thoe motho ke motho oa DCEO, ke eena a seng a kene ka ho office!
Taba eo, ha re ke keng ra e hlokomela, ra ba eletsang – ‘me kea le tsépa, Bahlomphehi, hore le lule le ntse le eletsa, le lule le ntse le ts’oere mono moo le ntseng le ts’oere teng, hore ka ‘nete taba ena e tl’e re ha ho fihloa tabeng ea an Act of Parliament, maikutlo ana a tla tsebahale hore ho tl’o tsebe ho sebetsoa taba ena.
E leng hore taba ena ke taba e ka etsahalang, eo ‘na ke neng ke bona eka ke taba e bohlokoa haholo, kannete, ena, ‘M’e Molula Setulo, e hlahang mona!E se eka re ka e aka,.
Joale empa eno ke Dr. Lebese Honourable o sa e buile, Mohlomphehi, ea ‘Treaties’ hore treaty e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe eo le kenang ka eona machabeng e-na le li-consequence tsa Budget ena le eona.
Eneh e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe e ts’oanela hore nakong eo re eang ho eona ra be re tseba hore re hlaphohetsoe hore na ke ka mokhoa o fe oo re tla tseba ho jara Lichelete tsa teng, hoba ke liphutheho, ke li subscription, ke melao eo u e etsang, eo e etsang demonstrate sepheo sa eona. ‘Me Molao ona o etsoa ho batloa chelete – eo u tla tseba ho etsa eng ka eona?
So, re ts’oanela re be hlokolosi hore e tle e seke eare ha re tsépisoa feela li-workshop tse tharo nakong eo ho ntseng ho tlameha hore ho il’o lumelloanoa ka li-Treaty, ebe re se re fihla re kena ho eona.
Ke mona moo ke lumelang hore an Oversight ea paramente e bohlokoa haholo tabeng eno. Le eona ka mokhoa o ntseng o ts’oana, re ts’oanela ho latela hore na Paramente ea rona na e aeheile joang. Taba eno e ‘ne tsamaee joalo kaha e tsamaea ka Matlong a mabeli ana; re ‘ne re shebe ka maihlo ano.
Ke bona eka ke taba ea bohlokoa haholo ena, e tlisa mekhoa e mecha ea ho fetoha, hobane e tlisa litaba tse ncha le maikutlo a macha le moea o mocha oo re o hemang.
Morena oa ka oa Thaba, ho re u tsebe hore u fetole litaba tsena, ‘na ka ‘ne ke ne ke lumela, Bahlomphehi ba ka, hore taba ena e bohlokoa haholo, re e tsetselele, ‘me e se ka ho tloha mona e ka shebisisoa hore ebe haholo an Act of Parliament re tle re tsebe ho ba hlokolosi ka taba ena, hobane ha ho uoa ho the Act of Parliament re tle re tsebe ho ba hlokolosi ka taba ena, hobane ‘nete e teng eona eo re e tsebang Matlo a na ‘ona a tla lula a ntse a le teng for now. Hoo re ts’oanelang ho ho sebeletsa bohle kaofela ke hore ho bonahale ho na le katamelano le ts’ebelisano ‘moho; ho se ke be hoa ba lee mong a suthumelletsang e mong lengopeng kapa ea sa rateng e mong. Eona re tla tlameha re il’o e sebeletsang.
Kea tseba ke ntho e thata, empa ke ne ke nahana hore ha re ka fetisa sehlomathiso sena mohlomong moea o mocha oa liphetho o tla hemela ba bang.
Kea leboha.
[liatla]
HON. SENATOR M. KANETSI: Kea leboha, Molula-Setulo. Ke ntse ke le hona mona ho 153 (a)(c) eo Mohlomphehi Lebese a neng a bua ka eona. Ke re re tla hopola hore these international laws and agreements li atisa ho thetsa holim’a boleng ba rona kapa holim’a culture and our tradition, ‘me ho kaba bohlokoa hore ehlile moo ebang re bonahala re sa utloane, joalokaha section e cho – tlase mane e re moo ebang ho kaba le hofapana ka maikutlo hoa the two Houses e se e re resolution ke hore ebe litaba tsa National Assembly prevail. Joale ke re e tsoa tlaase that spirit of joint sitting eo re qetang ho e bua! Kapa ke hona e tlang? Kapa re se re e fetile? Re se re bile re e fetile ea hore moo re utloang eka re ba le likhohlano tse ka amang sechaba – hobane ntho ea pele eo re e shebisisang ke hore na Molao oo re o behang o ama sechaba joang hampe kapa hantle. Ha hona le moo re bang le phapang ka maikutlo re ne re se re e ntse molaonyana ka mona hore re tle re ipheng nako ea hore re ke re be le a joint sitting, either ka likomiti tsa rona or any how, hore re ke re tl’o ts’ohlang boemo bono.
More so, hobane joale tsena tse international ka hore li-foreign li fihla li ama litloaelo tse ling kapa melao e meng ea rona kapa Bosotho le boleng ba rona, tseo li ka qetelletseng li baka re ke re tl’o hohlanang ka maikutlo hore re ke re tl’o hohlanang ka mahetla, re tl’o fananang ka malebela.
Joale ke ne ke re e tlohe, e hle e kene mane, hobane e tla sebetsoa ka mokhoa oa joint sitting joaloka tse ling.
Ha ke tsebe haeba kea hlaka, Molula-Setulo? Oh! oho! ke ne ke mpa ke batla ho utloa ho Setulo na ke hlakile tabeng ea ka, joale se re, ee!
HON. SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Ke ne ke re holim’a litaba tsena tse kang tsa bo li-treaty, Ntate Letona le Khabane, ekare litaba tse ngata haeba ho uoa ho li-treatyha ho nepahetse, che, kamoo motho u bonang kateng kapa u utloisisang kateng ke ea hore litaba tse ngata e ke ekare haeba ho na le moo ho uoang teng hore ebe ho ka tekenoa li-treaty ho ke ho batloe maikutlo a sechaba, ele hore re tle re nke karolo ha tseno li entsoe tsa li-treaty re be re re litaba tseno ke seo sechaba se ileng sa batloa maikutlo a sona.
Ke hoba ke re tse ling, joalokaha ke cho ke re litaba tse ling tsa li-treaty‘nqa e ‘ngoe e eabe e le fela hobane borumuoa bo ea be bo ile ba mamela taba feela hokae-kae, joalokaha Paramente ha re ipapisa le litaba CPA re le naha tjena re ee re be le hona hore re iphumane re tlameha ho nts’a seabo e le hore ho tle ho bonahale re le teng kahar’a mokhatlo oa CPA, ka mokhoa o ts’oanang le tsona li-treaty tseno tseo hothoeng li ea etsoa motho u nahana hore ha ho nepahetse re tlameha re hlahe re le bahlanka, re batle maikutlo a sechaba hore na a r’eng, leha ekaba Letona le ka tsoa mona kapa bohlanka bo ea mono bonyane re be re re re kile ra fa sechaba maikutlo.
Ha ho nepahetse re ipapisa le ka mokhoa oo Molao oa Motheo o leng kateng, ke karolo eo Ntate Khoabane a e behileng ka bokheleke – e teng mona moo ho buang ka protection of fundamental human rights e buang ka the right to participate in Government, ‘me ke nka hore joalokaha litaba tse ling li nepahetse o nka hore sechaba ha se kentse letsoho ke mono moo u tla re litaba tseno tsohle ho nkoa e le maikutlo a sechaba ka mokhoa oo ho leng kateng.
Ha ke buile hakana ke kopa ke kokobele, kea leboha.
[liatla]
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, ha hona nako, ‘me e ne eka litaba tsena re ka li bua re na le eona. Empa ka lebaka la hore re tatetse hore re se ke ra tloha hoa eba le ho robala hoa ho fetoha re mpe re fetise re lokise taba ena e mpe ebe e fetile re tle re tsebe ho robala.
Taba e kholo e teng ke hore sechaba sa Basotho se ne se na le litakatso tse ngata tse e ntsoeng overlook by the principal of law making, ka tsela ea hore molao ona sechaba sa Basotho se ne se na le litakatso tsa hore na Molao ona oa bona oa Motheo o tle o be joang. Joale empa ka lebaka la ts’obotsi ea botho, khoelehetso ebile hore melao e meng ha e ea lokela ho ea into the Constitution feela; e mpe e etsoe ke Act of Parliament. Joale taba eo e ntse stifle litakatso tsa sechaba sa Basotho ka tsela e makatsang ho latela khoelehetso eo ba neng ba e entse ha ho ne ho uoe sechabeng litabeng tse ngata haholo.
E leng hore litaba tseo re li sebelitseng ho tsoa ho batho ba kahare ho NRA joale le kahare ho Ntlo ena li e ntsoe stifle le ho sengoa ke ka lebaka la ho etsoa tailor-made ke batho ba molao ha ba o talima.
Ke bolela joalo hobane ho ne ho na le litaba tse ngata haholo tseo sechaba sa Basotho se neng se li lakalitse, joaloka taba ea Motlotlehi Hlooho ea Naha na ba batla hore ebe morena ea kabang joang. E ntse e le taba e thata hore batho ba amohele hore na sechaba sa Basotho se batla Motlotlehi ea joang, ‘me ha re lutse ka mona ekare re selehe, re li mphophotha tse sa tsebeng ho buella taba eo ba re laetseng hore re e etse. Ha ba utloisise hore Molao ka bo oona o thata hore o etsoe ka tsela eo u ka o lakatsang ha u le kantle ho Matlo ana a Mabeli a Ketsa Molao.
Ka hona litaba tseno li utloisitse batho ba bangata bohloko haholo ho latela litakatso tsa sechaba le ka tsela eo NRA eona e ileng ea li etsa kateng hore li tle li tsebe hoba very suitable, ‘me li tle li tsebe ho ea ho Basotho.
Re ntse re nkile style sa Westminster kapa sa sekhooa ka lebaka la li-ethics tsa bo-CPA, IPU and others and we left our own culture’s ways of life outside, because maybe they seems to be outdated, empa ha ho joalo. Taba ke hore linaha tse ling tsona li tseba ho etsa tailor-make litaba ho latela litakatso tsa bona.
Ke ntse ke araba taba ea Ntate Lebese eo a e bolelang. Ka ‘nete o e bua ka matla a tsabehang hore na why should we say National Assembly qeto ea eona shall prevail. Taba e kholo e mono, hee, hore, ae! Ke ka lebaka la hobane re re the elected House ho latela style sa hore na Ntlo ena le eane tse nang le khoelehetso le support ea sechaba ke li feng.
‘Na nkanna ka re le eona ena e ntse e na le support ea sechaba hobane leha ho uoe sechabeng ho botsitsoe maikutlo, sechaba se itse this House should remain like this. Khoelehetso boholo ba eona ke hore sechaba se itse leha e se e le ka nako ena ea 2004 or 2003 or 2002 re batla Ntlo ea Senate e lule e ntse e le joalo ebe le matla ano ao re a batlang.
Ba bang ba itse ho chencha kapa ho eketsa linako ha re li batle; re batla ba nne ba sale ba le joalo, borena bo ntse bo le ka holimo! They have a purpose hore na hoban’eng ba etsa joalo. Empa joale ka lebaka la ethics tsa li-Paramente tseo re leng the family ea tsona re iphumana re sena tokelo hore batho ba Bakhethoa ba Sechaba ke bona ba nang le matla a fetang a rona. Sheba feela le tsela eo ho etsoang lipatala tsa a President and a Speaker; ka linako tsohle a Speaker o rata ho lula a ntse a na le that superiorityholim’a a President. Why? It is because Ntlo ena hothoe ha e ea khethoa, eane e khethiloe. Ha ke tsebe na taba ea ho khethoa ho bona e fihla e re eng.
Joale ke ne ke re, Mohlomphehi oa ka, ka ‘nete, Ntate Lebese, I sympathiseand support your view. Ke ema le eona ka matla hore re lokela hore re lokise taba ena, ‘me ha re ea e etsa letho, hobane ha re ea e lokisa. Le kajeno lena Motaung e ntse e le joalo ka tsela eno e khahlanong le litakatso tsa Basotho, hobane re batla ho e etsa ho latela na England, France and Italy e etsoa joang, eseng hore na Lesotho le lokela hore le etse ka tsela efeng.
Re hlotsoe ho lokisa Molao ona oa rona hore o tle o be suitable for Basotho ho latela litakatso tsa bona le ka mokhoa oo ba ka supang litaba kateng, unfortunately. Ka hona ke ne ke re ke soaba joalo ka uena, Honourable Senator Lebese, hore re ntse re eme mono ha hona letho leo re le chenchileng in this Law.
E leng hore hona le batho ba bang ba ka tlohang ba re ha le ea etsa seo sechaba se neng se se batla, joale re etsa challenge molao ono ka tsela eo le o fetisitseng kateng. Mohlomong ha re qeta ho o fetisa o ntse o tl’o etsoa challenge hape ka lebaka la hore ha oa fihlela litakatso tseo Basotho ba neng ba batla ka teng.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
[liatla]
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister Ntate, tseo u li utloileng u ka…
Ntate Minister!
Kea kholoa Ntate Letona issuestse kang eona ena ea – ke 25 mang? Ena ea Section 153a (c) ea eona 2c ea eona eo Dr Lebese a neng a re na le shebile joang – na ho na le letho leo u ka le chong ka eona? Ke eona eo ke utloang eka e ntse ehlile e ntse e tlatsoa haholo.
HON.R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Ee, ke batla nka ka lumellana le Mohlomphehi ha a ne a re kamor’a Parliament mona re etse full stop, hobane le lona le ntse le le karolo ea Paramente.
Rona ka Senateng ka mona re lokela hore ebe re se re nt’sa rona ba ka Senateng ka mona! Joale e nepahetse ha e eme mona ho Paramente, Mohlomphehi.
Kea leboha.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Taba ena, Letona le Khabane, ke e rata haholo ha u re, ‘lona’. Ke ho re ha u sebetsa tjena ua bonts’a, Letona le Khabane, hore ka’nete ua tseba le hore le kamoso mohlomong u tla b’u lutse mono on a full time basis.
Joale taba ee mohlomong u ka e etsa propose hore re be re se re beha khutlo hona ka morao esere taba enara be re e isa mane moo re tla etsa amend?
Is that what you are proposing?
HON.R. RAMOELETSI: Ke kopa hore e tle be it is amended as proposed hore ha re fihla ho Paramente mono ebe re hona mono. Ke kopa e tle e etsoe e le Amendment e tle e tl’o kena.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Tanki Letona le Khabane, joale re beha taba holimá Clause 24, 26, 27 and 28. Re tlohela Clause 25 hobane ke eona e nang le Amendment eno joale le schedules tsane tsa 29.
Question that Clauses 24 – 28, skipping Clause 25, stand part of the Bill, put and agreed to.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, le tla hlokomela hore Bill ena e fella ka Clause 29, ‘me joale, Litho tse Khabane, re tla lokela hore re qale ho khutlela ho li-Clause tsane tseo re neng re li tlotse.
Joale empa ke bona eka re keke ra tseba le ho li qeta anyway, ka mokhoa oo ke bonang, ka lebaka la li-Amendment tsena tse neng li hlahisoa, tseo re lokelang hore re tl’o li etsa capture hantle. Feela empa re lokela hore ka nakonyana e ntseng e le teng, re qale re etse Clause 5, u etse the Clause as it is, Letona le Khabane, before the Amendment.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Clause 5 is a new insertion ea Section 22a e buang ka Public Interest ‘me e fa motho ofe kapa ofe ho isa litaba tsa hae Khotla, e kenyelletsa batho bohle ba amehileng tabeng. Ke eona taba eo ho buueng ka eona hore motho e mong le mong o na le tokelo ea hore a ka isa litaba Khotla moo a amehileng teng, hobane neng-neng ho na le batho bao ho tla thoe ha o na tokelo ea hore o bua taba ena.
Clause e cho joalo, Mohlomphehi, kea leboha.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha, Litho tse Khabane.
Question that Clause 5 stand part of the Bill proposed
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, kea u leboha, Ntate.
Mohlomphehi oa ka, hle, ke ne ke re ekare ho ka be ho ba le motho ea ka hlalosang the meaning of the word, ‘Public Interest’ in the true sense. Ekare nka be ke bitsa ‘M’e Sekokotoana a kene ka mona a ke a tl’o re hlalosetsa hore na what exactly do we mean by Public Interest? Kapa ha ke tsebe – Morena Peete ha a eo?
Hana ke mang eo eleng motho oa Molao?
Le our Clerk ke enoa has done a disappearing act! Kapa o khutlile? Ke ho re ke bolela hore re ke re utloisise lentsoe lena, hobane le complicated hape le round.
Ka Public Interest hantle-ntle ho boleloang? Le tle le tsebe ho ba interpreted le ho lula lipelong tsa batho.
Ke le tjena I’m a former victim of that thing ea motho eo ho neng hothoe ke Mphosi Matete eo e neng ele Letona ka nako ea ‘Muso oa Sesole. A rehe has expelled me for the rest of my life ka lebaka la “Public Interest.”
Taba ena ea Public Interest really has to be construed in the very understandable manner ho motho e mong le e mong ea ka ratang ho e utloisisa. Ha re ntse re etsa joalo it becomes very ambiguous and tantamount to being construed ka tsela a very misconstrued.
Ka hona ke ntse ke re ekare ka nako e ‘ngoe, Honourable Minister, ha u lutse ebe hona joale tjena u e hlalosa ka tsela e pharaletseng, molemong oa batho ba tla tseba ho itseka ka eona, ele hore ba e sebelise, hobane ba e utloisisitse.
Ke ne ke mo hlole Ntate ka litaba. Ke ne ke mo hlole, hobane batho ba Thaba Bosiu ba ne ba re na Public Interest ke hore eng ha bona ba ntse ba nthata, eena a ne a itse ke tsamaee ho hang for the rest of my life!
Ka nako eno e ne ele monna ea neng a emetse Masole, feela, hee, ke ne ke re taba eo ha re ntse re e sheba re e phetla, re lokela re ke re sebetse ka tsela e ka tsebang ho ba more understandable hore batho ba tle ba e utloe e le palatable.
Kea leboha, Ntate, ka lentsoe leo le nepahetseng, empa hee, ha se le hore kea e omanya! Ke ne ke re feela re ke re hopoleng, re be re bone hore eka ‘na ea sebelisoa ka tsela e not very conducive sebakeng sa hore motho e mong a ka e sebelisa lebitsong la hae hore e etse suite his own interest.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Eleng hore Setho se Khabane ‘nete e salang ke hore litlhaloso tsena oa li utloa, empa o re ha li tsepame, ha li re, qii! Ebile o re boholo ba nako taba leha e ka hlalosoa hakaalo, empa ele hore e hloka hore e etsoe monitor ts’ebelisong ea eona, hobane e bonahala e ba abused.
Joale ke ne ke re na, Ntate Letona, ho na le letho leo u ka le buang, Ntate oa ka?
HON Ramoeletsi: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Mona e batla e fapane le kamoo mohlomong Morena oa ka a ileng a sebetsoa kateng ka public interest. Kea kholoa hangata e sebelisoa ka hore, molemong oa sechaba, re tla u nka re u tlose mona, hobane joale u sitisa mosebetsi. Kapa ntho e kang eno! Joale empa mona hothoe ke moo motho litokelo tsa hae a utloang ho re li hatiketsoe.
Ha litokelo tsa motho tsa Constitution li hatiketsoe a ka atamela Lekhotla ho ea kopa thuso.
Joale mona ho buuoa ka hore na ke mekhahlelo efe ea batho ba ka emang ba thusa motho enoa; mohlomong e ka ba motho e mong lebitsong la e mong.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa ho re , nako ea rona… ‘na ea ka e re quarter to four. Pele nka re re etse Amend this Clause, ke ne ke kopa hore ke khutlele ka Senateng joale re tl’o lumellanang hore na re ea Teeng kapa ha re ee Teeng as per requirements of the procedure.
Question that the House should not take a recess for Tea put and agreed to
HON. MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa hore re shebeng Lipampiri tsena tse tala, Notice Paper 68, e nang le list of Amendments, ‘me Amendment ea pele ke eona ena ea:
- Clause 5 eo ke kopang hore Honourable Chairperson a e etse move holim’a Clause ena e ntseng e buuoa.
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: ‘M’e Molula- Setulo, I rise to move amendment to Clause 5, Sub-Clause 22a (2), Line 1.
Amendment to Clause 1: After the word “Parliament” delete the word “May” and substitute with word “shall”.
I move.
Question that Clause 5 be amended proposed.
CHAIRPERSON: U pentse, Morena oa Thaba?
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Re mo tlatsitse, Mohlomphehi.
Question Put and agreed to and Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
CHAIPERSON: Clause 6 Letona le Khabane.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI (Minister of Law and Justice): Clause 6…
(Interrupted)
CHAIPERSON: Clause 6! The Clause itself e ntse e le hona page 4 mono.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Clause 6:
Amendment of Section 54 (Establishment of Parliament).
Mona Sehlomathiso sena se hlakola Section 54 ,‘me se kenya ena e latelang temana: Establishment of Parliament, 54 e buang ka ho chorisa mesebetsi ea Paramente le boikarabello ba eona le hore Paramente e ikemele. ‘Me Paramente e tla boptjoa ka maoto a na a mararo, e leng Botlotlehi, Senate le National Assembly ,‘me ebile e kenyelletsa le hore e tle e ikemele e tle e be le budgetary allocation. ‘Me e tle e sebetsoe through a percentage model to be determined by the Act of Parliament.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, I so move.
Question, that Clause 6stand part of the Bill, proposed.
CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka oa Likhoele.
HON. SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Mohlomphehi, lefatše hona joale tjena e se e le motsana, leha ekaba maemo a ne a ntse a le teng a khajana, ho na le litaba tse ling tseo re ithutang tsona ho hlaha linaheng tse ling, Ntate Ramoeletsi.
Taba ena ea hore ebe Paramente ka bo-eona – hore Ntate ebe u e kopela hore e ikemele, hobane Paramente ka boeona ho ntse ho na le karolo ea sechaba se se ngata sa Basotho eo ho s’o kang hore, qii, ho eona, Ntate Motsamai, hore Paramente ke ho bolela Matlo a mabeli!
Taba ena eo u e kopangParamente ka bo eona, ke ea hore ntho e hlokahalang ke hore Paramente e ikemele, ‘me tabeng e amanang le budget, ‘Mé President ka uena, e se ke ea fuoa chelete ka mohau.
Re nke hore Matlo a mabeli ana a be tokelo ho kenyelletsa le ka Bohlanka. Ke ho re_ ke nka hore e tla tla e holisa maemo ana a shebiloeng litabeng tse kang tsa Foreign Affairs, hore ho tle ho kenyoee motho ka hare ho Matlo ana a mabeli ka taba eo ke nahanang hore nka ‘na ka re ke career service, eo ke nkang hore ha e ikemetse, Matlo ana bobeli a tla ba le monyetla oa ho tla khethoa ka makhabane.
Joale empa eo ke nkang e le ka holimo ke ea hore, ‘Mé President, ke eno eo ke reng e tla be e le tokelo ea hore ntlheng ea budget bonyane ebe Matlo bobeli a ka shebeloa mohau, ‘me e se ka mohau feela, empa ke re ka tokelo ea hore Matlo ana a mabeli bonyane budget a ka kopeloa bonyane le haele percent e ka etsang bonyane borarong ba lekholo holimá chelete e kopiloeng lintlheng tsa budget.
Ke kopa ke kokobele.
Kea leboha, ‘Mé.
CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, ha ho se na Setho se buang ke kopa ho le memela Notice Paper Number 69 e tala, e na le Amendment holimá Clause 6 ena eo re leng ho eona, ‘me ke kopa Setho se Khabane Honourable Senator Theko a tsoele-pele to move his Amendment.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Kopo ea ka mona ke ema ho beha taba hore joale re chatise Section Six ena ka hore e tle e be le seo re se bitsang e le pitso ea hore joale ha re se re entse establish that office, that commission joale e tle e be le budget ea eona e nang le setsiketsi kapa percentage e tla tla e itlhalosa hore na annually Ntlo kapa the office kapa that establishment, e be le percent tse tharo hore e tle ebe tšobotsi e tl’o bapala taba e kholo ea teng.
Mohlomphehi, taba ena eo ke e behang mona e baleha ka tsela e tjena:
In Clause 6, delete Three and substitute with the following: “The budgetary allocation for the Parliament shall be three percent of the annual budget”.
Ho bolela hore re tla theha setsiketsi sa hore annually there will be, from the National budget, a three percent that will be allocated to this very establishment e le eona e behang setsiketsi se tšoereng _joale naha e tla tseba ho etsa allot chelete e three percent directly to Parliament e se e le boikemelo bo teng bo entsoeng establish.
Taba e kholo e teng ke hore ha Paramente e ntse e le tlasá the spell sa Executive, ruri ke ho e kotsifatsa le ho e hlotsisa hore e lule e le tlasá the spell and the control of the Executive. Empa haeba re etsetsa hore joale e tle e be le independence ea ho tsamaisa mokhoa oa budget ea eona, e tla ba le freedom eo ke tsebang ka nepo hore ekanna ea ba le Matona moo a lutseng teng, leha a ntse a le mararo a le teng ka mona, ekanna eaba ba se ba laetsoe hore ba tl’o hana taba ena, hobane hantle-ntle the Executive ha e rate ha Paramente e ikemela. Empa re batla hore re ba kokobetse matsoalo hore haeba ba lumela taba ena, ba tla bona a smooth Parliamentary Service e nang le boikemelo, ‘me e tla tseba hore e se be sanngoe-ngoe ho National Executive.
Ka hona ke beha taba eo, Mohlomphehi oa ka. I propose hore re lumellane ka independence of Parliament. Joale without a budget e ka tsebang ho e tšehetsa ha e na ho ba le tokelo kapa le boitsamaiso ka tsela efe kapa efe leha re ka ra rata.
Ke beha taba ena hore taba ena e mpe e – _ke ile ka le joetsa…
ke mo fa Potso.
CHAIRPERSON: Potso, Setho se Khabane Honourable Senator Tau.
HON. SENATOR L. TAU: Ka ‘nete e bonolo feela, ke hore na ebe (Setho se Khabane se ntse se bua hantle) Setho se Khabanea ka re fa hore, mohlomong a ipapisistse le likhakanyo tsa lichelete tsa selemo sena se holimo, mohlomong le se fetileng, hore na ebe three percent ena ha e shejoa ka Maloti, na mohlomong budget ea selemo se fetileng le ea selemo sena na e ka ba e re fa palo efe? Le hore na ebe mohlomong palo eo e re fang eona, na ebe e tla be e nyolohile hakae ho kakaretso ea budget ea Paramente ka Matlo ana a mabeli ha e bapisoa? E tla be e nyolohile ka percent efe na?
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Senator.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: The percentage I am talking about, Honourable Minister, ke e three percent, ‘me you can make your own calculations ho latela the National budget ka mokhoa oo e leng kateng.
Empa ere ke u tsoele khomo hore ha le etsa break-down, e mpolella hore both Houses will be allocated close to M6 000 0 000 (600 million Maloti) eo eleng ea eona e tla tsamaisa the Parliament. I don’t think it will be too much for you to part with, ha u bua ‘nete.
I don’t think it will be too much to part with, ha u s’u bua ‘nete! Joale ke e beha e le joalo, ho re, it is at an estimate of M600 million in that annual budgetary allocation.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: U arabile, Setho se Khabane, tsoela-pele ka amendment ea hau.
U botsoa potso hape! Ba ea u hlasela, Setho se Khabane.
HON SENATOR N.M. MOTEANE: E lokela e–be very clear!
Ke kopa ho botsa Setho se Khabane hore na ke budget allocation as a total kapa ke recurrent portion of the budget? Lebaka leo ke botsang taba ena ke hobane ho se ho ntse ho ba le keketso e etsahalang selemo le selemo for Capital Budget, joale taba ea Capital Budget na e ea kenella Sehlomathisong sena sa hae na?
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Senator, ha ke u arabelle le ho u arabella, ke ne ke mpa ke re feela… feela hee, taba eane eo u n’u e bolela rea e bona joale!
U ka tsoela-pele oa araba Setho se Khabane.
HON SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Ke ne ke re the size of our national budget will be the fair determination of what we construe as fair allocation to this body we are talking about. We cannot determine it by raising it, when it is going up or down, ka tsela efeng kapa efeng, feela re tla lula re tsitsitse on the issue ea hore na National Budget e lutse joang at that particular annual time.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Kapa u ne u re u tla etsa ho hong hape?
Ke ne ke se ke re, Mohlomphehi oa ka, kea leboha ke behile taba ea ka, joale ke kopa Ntlo ena ea h’eso… “…and there shall be a parliamentary fund that is charged to the consolidated revenue to guarantee the independent funding of Parliament Activities”.
This hoo re qetang ho ho bala ke kapeso ea litaba tsena, hore joale ho tla tlameha ho be le establishment of that fund and the budgetary e tla fuoa this allocation ka linako, hobane ha e se na setsiketsi sena kapa mohatlana ona ha ho na tseba ho utloahala hore na re etsa establish eng e senang letho.
Ka hona kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON SENATOR DR. T. LEBESE: Kea leboha, Molula-Setulo. Ke ema mona, Mohlomphehi, ke tlatsa sehlomathiso sena sa Clause 6 joale kaha Setho se Khabane se behile taba ena. ‘
Re hloka ho utloisisa taba ena, Bahlomphehi, mohlomong ka tsela ea hore the very same 10th amendment that we are talking about talks about the Parliamentary Autonomy, but you cannot make a parliament to be autonomous without financial autonomy; ha e na khona ho sebetsa! The minute you do away hore paramente e ‘ne e tsoepeleloe ho hlaha ho the relevant Ministry, feela joale re re e ikemetse ka boeona – ha e sebetse, ‘me taba ena, Bahlomphehi, re tlamehile re e utloisise hore ho bile le litsebi tabeng e ts’oanang tse ileng tsa etsa boithuto tabeng ena. There has been a bench marking e ileng ea etsoa. The best model will be that of Kenya moo ba nang le karolo in terms of percentage moo ho nang le autonomy ea Paramente, ‘me karolo ea ‘ngoe feeloane hlano lekholong e abeloa Paramente ka Parliamentary Commission Service.
Re tle re e utloisise na taba ena e bolelang, Bahlomphehi; ha e bolele keketso ea the National Annual Budget in anyhow, Honourable Minister le ‘M’e Molula –Setulo. We are talking about the total annual budget e nkang sohle seo re se bitsang budget ea leino le the capital budget.
Lebaka le teng, we are Parliament, therefore the Parliament plays the role of oversight. Honourable Minister, through you Madam Chair, some may be interested mane airport – rona re le komiti ea Paramente ea Senate we might be interested Mashai moo u ntseng u etsa marokho teng ho il’o bona marokho, others are interested in other things – and we need transport ea ho ea mono, joale re tlamahile ho e kopa hore re lumelloe ke Executive hore e re thuse e re kepelele hoba re bona eka lenaka le se le oela ka koano, re mpe re ee mono. Joale haeba ba utloa re bapala oversight ea rona and that is a capital project they will not allow us ho re fa supplementary budget ho etsa mosebetsi ono oa Paramente, hence we are talking of a total.
Bahlomphehi, the 3%, e leng karolo ea boraro lekholong, ha e fokotse letho, we have to understand this.
Honourable Minister Tau, if the national budget for the financial year 2025/2026 is M26 billion, the 3% ea eona e tla ba around +-M700 million.
Haeba lipalo-palo tsa the Finance Minister selemong seno sa lichelete se mo fa hore likhakanyo tsa hae li mo beha ho M22 billion, it is then proportional that 3% ea eona e tla ea tlasana, ‘me, Bahlomphehi, ha re utloisise na taba ena e bolel’ang.
Taba ke hore e bolela hore ho na le taba ea hore re na le Parliamentary Service Commission e tl’o tla e ikhirela bohlanka, e tl’o tla e hira e etsa li-establishment, ‘me taba ena e mpa e bolela feela hore likhakanyo tsa lichelete tse neng li ntse li isoa kahare ho Public Service bohlankeng joale li se li tl’o tla li oela ho Parliamentary Service Commission.
Re na le lintho tseo re li bitsang –Personal Emoluments. Ho tla ba le litaba tsa new positions, joalo-joalo, ho etsa mandate oa rona oa oversight.
Taba ena re tlameha ho e siea e le joalo, Bahlomphehi, hore Clause ena ha e sale e le joalo e le karolo ea boraro lekholong ea total annual budget, hobane e tl’o fokoletsa the Honourable Minister Public Service ka bohlanka bono hore ebe ha bo sa oela Public Service joaloka bane ba Teaching Service Commission. E tla ba bo se bo oela ho Parliamentary Service Commission.
I so support, Mohlomphehi, kea leboha.
MADAM CHAIRPERSON: Ke kopa ho fa Honourable Senator Likhoele pele, ke u bone ‘m’e Kanetsi ke u bone Morena oa Matsieng le Ntate Chairperson.
HON SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Ke kopa ke tlatse Ntate Khoabane ka lihlomathiso tsena, haholo-holo ntlheng ena ea ho qetela e bileng ke boetseng ke leboha Ntate Lebese ha a e buile.
Ke re ka hare ho Ntlo ena, ‘M’e President, ho na le likomiti tse bileng li kenyelletsang moo Sechaba sa Basotho se fuoeng monyetla oa hore se ka tla teka taba kapa ho tla tlisa litletlebo e le hore moo li tlamehang hore li ee libakeng tse itseng, Ntate Lebese, ebe komiti e joalo ebe e ka khona hoba e tla be e na le chelete ea hore ho tl’o tsamauoe ho ea hloela sebaka se ka bang sechaba se lla ka maemo a libaka tse joalo.
Ke kopa ke kokobele, kea leboha.
HON SENATOR S. K. MASUPHA: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ehlile amendment ena ea Clause 6 e nepahetse hore ebe ea etsoa. Ua tseba hore na ho etsahalang ke eng, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo? Ho ka etsahala hore re be le Tona-Kholo le Matona a sa lokang hantle ka mona ka hloohong, ebe ha re re re batla chelete re le Paramente ebe ha ho be joalo, Mohlomphehi, ebe Paramente e hloloa hore e etse mosebetsi oa eona ka lebaka la hobane a ka ikhethela hore a ts’oare mokotla.
Taba ena e khuts’oanyane, e fella hakaalo; e fella feela ha e re le hore e tlama hore budget eno e be teng, ke utloa e le statement feela se bonolo feela!
Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke rata hore re ke re shebe ntlha ke ena: joalokaha baetsi ba molao e le bano mose mane, na ba ile ba hlokomela hore ha ho buuoa ka 3% ee ho buuoa k’ang? Ke bua tjena hobane, Mohlomphehi, ha hothoe paramente ho boleloa Matlo a mabeli, ebile o bolela le Rabasotho! Joale 3% ee e akaretsa mafapha aa a mararo?
Taba ena tsela eo e ngotsoeng ka eona, ‘na ka mokhoa oo ke e shebang kateng ke utloa ena le sekhoqetsanenyana seo motho e mong, joale ka batho bana bao re reng ke monna oa Mosotho, a kannang a e etsa challenge, hobane ke utloa eka ha ea re, qii!
Ha ea re, qii, hore na ha ho thoe 3% – ke 3% ea National Assembly le 3% ea Senate? Ke utloa taba eo e sare, qii! Che, ka hoea ka nna ka mokhoa oo ke e shebang kateng. E re Paramente e tla fuoa 3%, joale taba ke hore na ha ho thoe Paramente ho boleloa’ng? Ho boleloa Matlo a mabeli. E leng hore ha e bua ka Matlo ana a mabeli, e bua ka likarolo tseno tse peli tse tla arolelana 3% eo? Hape empa haele bonnete Temana eona ha echo joalo.
E re, ‘Paramente e tla arolelana 3%’! Che, ke e siea ele joalo! Ke utloa eka ekare e na le letsukanyana le batlang le sa re, qii! Leha hole joalo ke utloa taba ena e entsoe ka bohlale bo nepahetseng hore ho thibeloe ‘Muso o moholo o seke oa sitisa Paramente ho etsa mosebetsi.
Kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR S.B. SEEISO: Hammamorao re tla bitsoa ka mabitso – ba ‘mitsa ka mabitso Emmanuel!
‘M’e Molula Setulo, ke kopa ho re Dr Lebese o sa buile litaba tse ngata tseo ke neng ke tl’o bua ka tsona but let me make just a quick acknowledgement kapa papiso, hore hona joale tjena ho ts’oana leha Ntate Motsamai a ka nts’episa hore a ka mphe koloi e lume, empa ka la hosane ha ke tsoha ke fumane e se e sena mabili e se sena senotlolo, empa joale a nts’a lebeletse hore ke il’o fihla moo ke hlokang ho ea teng.
Basically, what we are saying is that in terms of the principles of Separations of Powers it is paramount and imperative and a must hore the Executive is independent of the Lagislature from top to bottom in all the aspects tseoNtate a seng a buile ka tsona: Budgeting, staffing, etc, for that Institution to then have a free and independent trend of thought and operation.
It goes in extention eomohlong re tla fihla ho eona kamoso ha re fihla to the Judiciary. It is the same Principle that Judiciary isan independent organ or Institution. Equally I am not here to argue the 3,5,10 kahaha ke motho oa lipalo……. feelanka e buelella.
Hona joale tjena Ntate Tholo ho itsoe o lula Likhole mane, empa ha hona stationery, feela we are talking about operations of a Chief! We are hamstrung by other factors to make or to carry out our duties, hobane joale ha re na boikemelo, ha re na letho. Hona joale tjena re qela ho District Administrator, ‘me haeba D.A. – Morena oa ka o kile a bua ka hore haeba mang a s’a kula ka hlohong a ka ikhants’etsa uena eaba o u tima ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe le motlakase, ebe motlakase oona o teng, li office tsena tse ncha ebe ba o tima motlakase mono o sitoa ho sebetsa!
Joale empa tebello e tla ba hore hosane ha batho ba sa fumane lits’ebeletso ebe ho ntse ho thoe Likhoele, Matsieng, Tebang ha ho sebetsoe.
Honourable Ministers, we employ you ka moea o motle, libapali, we are saying for the peace and tranquillity of the realm and going forward to a more stable Parliamentary participative democracy, re hloka boikemelo bo hlakileng bo sa tl’o hloka hore ebe we are going to the Ministry of Finance with a begging bow hore re hloka keketso, re hloka eng, re hloka eng.
The percentages can be argued up or down; it is the principle of the matter that the independence of administration begins that ho tlameha hore ho be le financial independence e tla etsa match litaba tseno tsa independence and autonomy.
Kea leboha, ‘M’e.
HON. SENATOR M. MOKHATHALI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, ebile ea ka e khuts’oanyane. Bokhuts’oanyane ba eona ke ho re kannete leha le ‘na ke tlatsa taba ea hore taba ena ea 3% e hle e bonahale ele teng ka har’a Molao oa Motheo, hore re tle re se ke ra ‘na ra koeneheloa ho latela hore na ‘Muso o tla be o le teng oa letsatsi na letsatsing leno o tla be o inahanne joang…
Ea bobeli ke ho re haeba re fuoa autonomy, le Basebetsi ba bangata ba ntseng ba le ka har’a Public Service, kutloisiso ea ka ke ho re ba se ba tla ka nq’ena, ‘me chelete eno ha e ngata joale ka ha eka 3% e bolela li-million.
Ea boraro, ke ho re re le Paramente mosebetsi oa rona ke ho lisa. Ka nako e ‘ngoe re lisa ka ho botsa Matona lipotso. Ache, ke se ke bone hangata hore ho tse ling a re thetsa feela. Ke ho re a araba feela hore e tle ebe a arabile.
E leng ho re taba ea bohlokoa ke ho re leha re ntse re botsitse joalo, re be le Budget e ka etsang hore Letona le tsebe hore karabo eo le faneng ka eona ka mona re ka tseba ho e sala morao.
Hona joale kaha Executive e-ea tseba hore leha e ka tla ka mona feela kapa ka Ntlong ea Bakhethoa, ea ikarabella lipotso feela, re fella hona mono, hobane ha re na tseba ho ea fihla mono.
Ka hona, ke tlatsa Tlhahiso ea Setho se Khabane Morena oa Thaba-Bosiu.
Amendment to Clause 6: Agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 6 as ‘Amended’: Agreed to.
MADAME CHAIRPERSON: Ke kopa hore, hle, Litho tse Khabane, le tla bona hore ho ntse ho feralla Lipampiri tse ngata mona, tse Tala! Ehlile re se re le very disorganised ka litaba tsena tsa Lihlomathiso.
Ka nako ena e setseng, re ke ke ra re re e’o li lokisa, re khutleng.
The House resumed.
MADAME PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke kopa hore kannete ho fihlela mona moo re tsamaileng teng ke le lebohe haholo ka Litlatsetso tseo le li entseng holim’a Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao. E ne e le ts’epo ea rona hore re tla be re se re qetile kajeno.
Hoa bonahala ha re ntse re sebetsa hore ho na le litaba tse ling tseo re neng re li siile kathoko, tseo tse ling tsa tsona ebileng re ntseng re bona hore re lokela hore re ‘ne re poleshe Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao ho ea pele.
E se e le boipiletso ba ka, hle, hore re fihleng ka nako hosane, re bile re ntse re le ka lipalo tsena tse ntle tseo li re ts’episitseng, ebile e le boikarabello ba rona.
Re tla ‘ne re kene ka nako ea rona ea mehla, le lijo tsa mots’eare li tla ‘ne li be teng, Litho tse Khabane, ele hore re tsebe ho qeta mosebetsi.
Ntlo e tla phomola ho fihlela hosane ka 10:30 hoseng.
ADJOURNMENT
Thereupon, Madame President adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order No. 16 (3).
The House was adjourned at 16:24 p.m.