OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE SENATE
DAILY HANSARD
6th Meeting – First Session
Eleventh Parliament
Date: Thursday 5th JUNE, 2025.
LENANE LA LITHO TSA NTLO EA MAHOSANA TSA PARAMENTE EA LESHOME LE MOTSO O MONG
| 1.Hon. Seeiso B. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Matsieng |
| 2. Hon. Joel A. Motšoene | Principal Chief of Leribe |
| 3.Hon. Sempe Gabasheane Masupha | Principal Chief of Ha ’Mamathe, Thupa-Kubu, Teya-Teyaneng le Jordan |
| 4.Hon. Mamolapo M. Q Majara | Principal Chief of Ha Majara |
| 5.Hon. Tumane Matela | Principal Chief of Makhoakhoeng |
| 6.Hon. Moeketsi Moletsane II | Principal Chief of Taung |
| 7.Hon. Lerotholi Mathealira Seeiso | Principal Chief of Mokhotlong |
| 8. Hon. Lerotholi L. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Likhoele |
| 9. Hon. Theko D. Bereng | Principal Chief of Phamong |
| 10.Hon. Mojela T. Makhaola | Principal Chief of Qacha’s Nek |
| 11.Hon. Seeiso S. H. Nkuebe | Principal Chief of Quthing |
| 12.Hon. Nthupi A. Bereng | Principal Chief of Rothe, Masite, Serooeng, Letšeng, Kolo Ha Mohlalefi le Thaba-Tseka Ha Ntaote |
| 13.Hon. K.L.K Khoabane | Principal Chief of Thaba-Bosiu |
| 14.Hon. Mitchel S. Maama | Principal Chief of Ha Maama |
| 15.Hon Moholobela M. Moholobela | Principal Chief of Matelile |
| 16.Hon. Bereng G. Seeiso Api | Principal Chief of Ha Ramabanta le Kubake |
| 17. Peete Lesaoana Peete | Principal Chief of Koeneng le Mapoteng |
| 18.Hon. ’Mako T.Mohale | Principal Chief of Tajane, Ha Moetsana le Ha Mohale |
| 19. Hon. Khoabane T. Mojela | Principal Chief of Tebang, Tšakholo le Ha Seleso |
| 20. Hon. Retšelisitsoe Mopeli | Principal Chief of Botha-Bothe |
| 21.Hon. Pontšo S. Mathealira | Principal Chief of Tsikoane, Peka le Kolbere |
| 22.Hon. Qeto Sekonyela | Principal Chief of Malingoaneng |
| 23.Hon.’Mawinnie Kanetsi | Senator |
| 24. Hon. Lebona Khoaele | Senator |
| 25. Hon. Thabiso Lebese | Senator |
| 26. Hon. ‘Maphakiso Lebona | Senator |
| 27. Hon. ’Mabataung Patricia Mokhathali | Senator |
| 28. Hon.Sehlooho HenryMonatsi | Senator |
| 29. Hon. ‘Makholu Moshoeshoe | Senator |
| 30. Hon. Neo Matjato Moteane | Senator |
| 31. Hon. Seabata Motsamai | Senator |
| 32. Hon.Richard Ramoeletsi | Senator |
| 33. Hon. Limpho Tau | Senator |
PARLIAMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
SENATE CHAMBER
THURSDAY 5TH JUNE, 2025
The House assembled at 10:30 a.m.
(MR VICE- PRESIDENT in the chair)
PRAYER
The chaplain led the House in Prayer
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke kopa ho le lumelisa, Litho tse Khabane, letsatsing la kajeno.
Kajeno ha re na litsebiso tse khethehileng hakaalo haese hore feela maobane re qalile mosebetsi oa Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, ‘me re entse mosebetsi o mongata haholo. Kajeno re se re setse ka taba ea Amendments. Kea kholoa kamorao ho Amendments tseno kapa Lihlomathiso tse tsoang ka Komiting e se e tlaba taba ea ho kena Palong ea Boraro ea Sets’oants’o sa Molao.
Ke tsona litaba tse kholo tse re saletseng in as far as the Bill is concerned, empa haeba ho ka etsahala hore re phethele mosebetsi ona oa Sets’oants’o sa Molao kajeno, Litho tse Khabane, pampiri e tala e tla ba teng ele hore re tle re phomotse Ntlo re sa bolele nako.
Ha re ke ke ra qeta re tla fetela pele; mohlomong re tla ea le bekeng e tlang. Re tla phomotsa Ntlo ha feela re se re qetile ka Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Next item, Mr Clerk.
PROCEEDINGS ON SUBSTAINTIVE MOTIONS AND BILLS
BILL
TENTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BILL, 2024
MR VICE PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, le tla hopola hore maobane re ile ra phomotsa Ntlo re ne ntse re le ka Komiting, ‘me Ntlo e tla ipopa ele Komiti ho tsoela pele ka mosebetsi moo e emisitseng teng maobane.
The House resolved itself into Committee
(In the Committee)
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, maobane re ne re se re ile ra sebetsa Clause 5 le Clause 6.
Re kopa hore u tl’u kene Clause 11 u re tataise ka eona.
Litho tse Khabane, ka copying tsa lona ka moo Clause ena eo re tl’o sebetsana le eona e Page 7.
Clause 11
HON. R. RAMOELETSI (MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE): Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo.
Ke ema ke sisinya Sehlomathiso sena sa 11th Amendment of Section 78 “Mode of exercise of legislative power,” ‘me eona e bua ka tsela e latelang:
The National Assembly may, by resolution, reinstate Bill that lapsed when Parliament was prorogued or dissolved.
E ile eare ha re ntsere sheba ra fumana e hloka hore e tle e lokisoe. Ntlo e ile ea etsa Sehlomathiso sena hore se tle se lokisoe, ‘me ke tla boela ke khutla ka Sehlomathiso seno ka nako eo Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo le Ntlo ba tla lumellana hore ke khutle ka eona.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Question, that Clause 11 stand part of the Bill, proposed
HON. SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Mohlomphehi, ke ema ho tlatsa Letona le Khabane la Justice ka ho beha taba ena ea ho lokisa kaletsa, eo e ileng ea eba an oversight hobane ka nepo Paramente e lokela hore ebe le matla a ho etsa reinstate any Clause or any mishap e ka tlohang ea etsahala.
In the past re bone ha the whole work of Parliament o ne o etsoa dismiss ka lebaka la Lekhotla ka lebaka la hore re ne re se na matla ka nako eno a ho etsa reinstate molao ha o no o se o ile oa senngoa ke taba ea nako.
Ho no s’o ile hoa thoe Paramente e koaloe, empa ka tsela tse ling matla a le sieo ho Paramente e apesitsoeng – ebe re bona mosebetsi ono o etsoa nullify ke qeto ea Lekhotla.
Ka hona Paramente ea ikeletsa motsotsong ona hore re tle re be le matla a joalo a ho etsa reinstate piece of Legislation that might be left out ka lebaka la nako kapa kamor’a dissolution.
Ka hona ke ema ho tiisa hore it’s one of the most fundamental issues tsa nako ea Paramente, hore matla a Paramente to reinstate the law that has been lapsed after dissolution, Paramente e apesoe matla a ho khutlisa ts’ebetso e joalo.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi
HON. SENATOR. L.L. SEEISO: Ke kopa feela ke behe ka mantsoe a mabeli, a mararo, bo-Ntate.
Mosotho oa pele o na sa fose ha a re leihlo ha le fahloe habeli, ebile ha ho ntho e mpe e se nang molemo.
Re nke feela hore re le Ntlo kapa re le Paramente ka kakaretso hore re ithutile holim’a liphoso tsa nako e fetileng, ‘me ka litaba tsena, Ntate, re nke hore ha re etsa tjena re leka ho hloekisa mabala ao ho boleloang e le Paramente ka kakaretso.
Ke kopa ke kokobele, kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: Ke lebohe, hle, Ntate Molula-Setulo. ke ne ke batla nke ke kene hanyane feela e le hore ke tlatse. Ke se ke hlokometse hore Litho tse Khabane li se li e khobotlile taba ena.
Hantle-ntle le tla hopola, Bahlomphehi, hore re ‘ne re hopotsaneng hape-hape hore taba e ‘ngoe e kholo ea Tlhopho-Bocha ke ho fetola litloaelo tse fetileng. Ke ho tsitsisa puso ka mafapha ‘ohle a eona, ‘me taba ena ea hore Lihlomathiso, haeba mohlomong ho etsahala hore hobe le khefu kapa bophelo ba Ntlo ea Paramente bo fela, ha ho bolele hore Paramente eona e le institution e shoele. Ke hore ntho ena ke ntho e bitsoang principle of continuity, hobane re naha, Bahlomphehi. Joale ha re le naha ha re re letsatsing lena hobane ke puso ea mang mang o n’a etsa tjena-lintho tsena li etsoa molemong oa sechaba.
E leng ho re nelehetsano ea mosebetsi eona e t’soanela e lule e le teng, hobane e ea be e le likhafa tsa sechaba sa Basotho tse sebelitseng. Ka ‘nete ha ekare ha e oele ebe e se e sitoa hore e phahamisoe taba eno ka ‘nete e fihla e senya taba eno ea legislative continuity kapa ka mokhoa oo e ka behoang kateng ka lipuo tsa morao hore ho t’soanela hore ho ahoe lebanta leno, hobane re sebeletsa naha.
Ke re ke bona hore Sehlomathiso sena se tla re thusa haholo, ha re tlohella taba eane ea hore Molao ona o ile oa re Standing Order ha se ka mona, empa ke mona e kene Molaong. Ka ‘nete lekhetlong lena ke utloa eka ‘na kea e tlatsa, ke re ke tlatsa Sehlomathiso sena.
[Liatla!]
HON. SENATOR S. K. MASUPHA: Le ‘na ke kena lieteng tsa Litho tse reng Temana ena e lokela hore e kene ka hare ho Molao o moholo oa Motheo. Rea tseba hore taba ena ea li-Reform ha se taba e nyane; ke leeto.
Ua tseba ho kanna hoa etsahala hore bophelo ba Paramente bo be bo fele re s’o qete ho etsa reform Molao oa rona oa Motheo? ‘Me ha litaba li le tjena ehlile ke bona eka ebile boikeletso bo botle haholo. Joalo ka ha bo-Mphato oa ka ba se ba boletse rea tseba hore re ile ra re re leka ho sebelisa li-Standing Order, empa li ile tsa hana.
Ha litaba tseno li se li hanne ho ka holimo ke Molao oa Motheo, ‘me Molao oa Motheo o ne o tlotsoe. Rea tseba hore re ile ra tsitlella hore taba ena e ne e tsoele pele, Paramente e buloe. Eno eona ke ntho eo bohle re e tsebang kaofela. Empa ha e ka ba ea bona letsatsi.
Joalo ka ha ke se ke chulo, Mohlomphehi, ka ‘nete ke mpa ke ema feela ke tlatsa hore taba ena ke ea bohlokoa haholo, kahoo ha e kene ka hare ho Molao oa Motheo. Ke ho re ke t’sireletso e ka holimo ho lintho tsohle.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Kea tlatsa.
CHAIRPERSON: Re leboha haholo, Litho tse Khabane, ka tlatsetso eno ea lona.
Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, re ne re kopa hore u ke u re tataise ka Sehlomathiso se secha sa Clause eona ena.
Order Paper ea lona mono ke page 1, Litho tse Khabane.
HON. R. RAMOELETSI: Sehlomathiso sena re kopa hore re tle re hlakole sub-Clause 3 (a), ‘me re kenye ena e ncha (a new sub-clause), ‘me e baleha tjena:
‘3(a) the Senate or the National Assembly may, by 2/3 majority, reinstate the Bill that lapsed at the stage it had reached when Parliament was prorogued or dissolved’.
E baleha tjena, Bahlomphehi ba ka, e le Temana eo re reng e kene e le ncha.
Kea leboha.
Clause 11 as amended proposed
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, e se e mpa e le ho rata ho bua feela, hobane Letona lona le hlahisa taba ka mokhoa oo e leng kateng, empa le sa bolele molemo le the intention of such a Clause. joale empa rea utloisisa hobane re re re lipha ka lebaka la ketsahalo ea nako e fetileng. Ka hona re batla ho tlatsa taba eno ea hae hore the main purpose ea ho lokisa taba ena is for the resuscitation of the Bill by the 2/3 of both Houses ha hona le taba e joalo. Ka hona taba kholo ke matla a apesoang Matlo ana, a neng a le sieo, joalo ka ha Morena oa ka oa Likhoele a bolela hore leihlo ha le ke le fahloa habeli.
Ka hona re ile ra bona that mistake and we want to correct that mishap hore e se hlole e nka sebaka, ‘me ka tsela e joalo e re thusa hore re tle re be le matla ao re a apesoang ke Molao.
Ntate Morena oa Lioli o re, “re ile ra leka ho etsa refer to Standing Orders, empa at the end of the day eaba the rule e re, e-e! Ha re tsamaisoe ka li-Standing Orders, this matter is bigger than the Standing Orders. E lokela ebe enshrined inside the Constitution, ‘me e be e be a sort of a double entrench in the sense that both Houses have to initiate e le ho etsa reinforce.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Clause 11: as amended put and agreed to and ordered to stand part the Bill.
Clause 12
HON. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Re kena Sehlomathisong sena sa 12, e leng page 12. Sona se bua ka Joint sitting of Parliament, e leng karolo ena e ncha e kenellang e le Tulo ea Matlo a mabeli ana a Ketsa-Melao hore na ebe a ka lula ha ho etsahala joang.
Ea pele taba e leng 80A (10) e bolela hore the King may summon the Senate and the National Assembly to convene in a joint sitting for the delivery of the Speech from the Throne, ‘me mona ho boleloa hore ke Motlotlehi a ka bitsang Matlo ana a Mabeli a Ketsa-Molao hore a lule ‘moho e le ho tla mamela Speech se hlahang Toroneng.
Ea bobeli e bua ka hore President of the Senate and Speaker of the National Assembly ba ka bitsa Matlo ana a Mabeli ho lula ‘moho, ‘me le teng ho ntse ho thathamisoa hore na ke ka mabaka afe ba ka bitsoang ‘moho ho tla tla etsa mosebetsi oo.
Ea pele, ke ho tla mamela Puo ea Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo ha a beha maano a hae.
Ea bobeli, ke ha ho tl’o tla ho mameloa taba ea manollo ea lichelete tsa selemo,
Taba ea boraro, e leng(c), ke moo hlooho ea naha kapa moeti e mong oa bohlokoa a chakelang naha ena, ‘me a fuoa monyetla oa hore a tle a kene a behe litaba.
Ka hona ha Matlo ana a Mabeli a lutse – e leng Temana ea boraro e bont’sang hore bobeli ba bona, The President of the Senate and Speaker of the National Assembly, ke bona bao e tla ba Balula-Setulo, ‘me ka kopanelo. The Act of Parliament shall prescribe hore na ho tla sebetsoa joang.
Kea beha, Mohlomphehi
Question proposed
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Ke tla ‘ne ke hatise litaba tsa intention e tle e re Amendment e kena e be taba ena e utloahetse. Ke hantle ha re tsamaea step by step re etsa leotoana la ngoana ngoanake ha se lee! ‘Nete ke hore taba ena e hlalosoa e ka bitsoa ke Motlotlehi Khosi. A ka etsa summon the Parliament ka Matlo ana a mabeli hore a lule ‘moho, ‘me a mamele litaba tsa hae. E re le teng haeba matlo ana a mabeli a rerile hore ho ka ba le a Head of State visiting, joalo ka maoba ha re ne re na le Mongoli-Kakaretso oa Machaba a Kopaneng Ntate António Guterres, re ne re ile ra kopana.
Feela hantle–ntle taba e kholo eo re e etsang mona – the intention ke hore ho tle ho be le ts’obotsi e molaong; e se ke eaka it is just a favour or a courtesy, but it should be in entrenched in the Constitution hore Matlo ana a mabeli a be le nako ea ho lula ‘moho.
Kea tseba hore Ntate Motsamai etlare ha a ema mona, ha a tiisa taba eno ea sehlomathiso seno sa hae, o tla tla a bua ka ntho ea bohlokoa ea ho bonts’s hore Matlo ana a mabeli, for the purpose of success le taba ea ho akana, hore hoa lokeleha hore re be le that flexibility of meeting even when there are issues that have to be discussed tse ka re qobisang le ho isa Potso Sechabeng.
Ke ho re seo re se shebileng ke ho nolofaletsa matlo ana a mabeli hore ho se ke hoa ba le likhoqetsane tse ka a thibelang hore when that allows ba iphe sebaka sa ho lula, ho qoqa le ho utloana le ho fumana tharollo.
Ha ke tsebe ntho e neng e etsa hore ka linako tse fetileng Ntlo ea National Assembly e nke eka e betere kapa e phahame ka lebaka la hore mohlomong e khethiloe. Taba eno ka boeona feela e sentse ts’obotsi ea kopanelo ea one House eo ho thoeng ke Parliament, e nang le Matlo a mabeli. Feela empa le ma-ha-bo-rona ho ntse ho na le ka mokhorong, ka heising le ka foreising kapa ka moo ho robaloang ka thakaneng.
Kahona hona ho bopa the family of Parliament hore e tle e tsebe ho ba le mokhoa oa ho akana ha litaba li ba teng.
I rest my case, Mohlomphehi.
HON SENATOR M. KANETSI: Okay! Ae, mohaisane o na mphile tjako bathong!
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Deputy President, Matona a Khabane, Litho tsa Ntlo le bohle ba teng, kea lumelisa hoseng hona.
Ke ema ke tlatsa sehlomathiso sena ka tsela e khethehileng. Ke ne ke mpa ke batla ke re re tle re hopole hore e se e ntse e etsahala taba ena; ha e qale. E ne e mpa joale e etsahala ho se na melao; joale re e apesa molao.
Re tla hopola hore hoane ha re ne re etsa Molao oa Inheritance re ile ra tlameha hore re kopane, hobane maemo a ne a re tlama hore re kopane. Ho ne ho tatuoe ho se na nako e nepahetseng ea hore litaba tseo li potlake li fete, ‘me eaba joint sitting e-ba teng ho level ea Likomiti.
Re ile ra ba le challenge e ‘ngoe ha re ne re batla ho sebetsa taba eane ea Ha Ts’osane ea dumping site, joale sechaba se isitse litletlebo ka National Assembly le ka Senateng, joale re tlameha ho li kopanela, eaba joale ke mona moo re bonang hore li-Standing Order tsa rona ha li re lumelle, empa e se e ntse e ile ea etsahala.
So, ke se tlatsa tjena hobane ke re ruri ho ka ba le litaba tse ling tsa Naha tseo re tlamehang ho tla thetsana ka mahetla ka tsona ho utloisisa hore na lehlakore le leng le tena le hana taba e ‘ngoe hobane eng; kapa leha le hana le re, ha re tl’o lulang fats’e le ke le tl’o utloa lehlakore la rona molemong oa sechaba. E leng hore e bopa bonngoe ba Ntlo ena ea Paramente.
Mohlomphehi e re, “haeba ho na le ba neng ba e shebile ka leihlo lena, joale ho boetse ho na le ba bang ba reng ntho ena e ka boetse ea ba kotsi kapa ea ba molemo, joale lehlakore le leng le sa e bona, e re fe monyetla o joalo oa ho il’o kholisana.
‘Me e re fa monyetla ono oa hore ha re sa kholisana ho ntse ho na le ba fuoeng matla a ho tsoa ka la pholo-khoaba hore, ae, ha re lumellaneng, ‘me re ea tsamaeang empa e tla be e ntse e re file monyetla, Mohlomphehi, hore re ke re bue re kholisane re thetsane ka mahetla hore na taba eno e molemong oa Sechaba le hore na e ka re tsoela molemo o joang.
E leng hore ka ‘nete ke utloa e bile e atametsa le taba ea ts’ebelisano-‘moho ea Matlo haufi, hobane ha e re feela mohla Motlotlehi a buang, ha e re feela mohla Tona-Kholo e buang, empa e re le mohla re bonang eka ha re bonele ‘moho holim’a melao e itseng re lule fats’e re ke re buisane litaba tsena, hobane re Basotho kaofela, ‘me ho molemong oa Basotho hore re ba etsetse melao eo ba tla utloa eka e ea ba sebeletsa.
Ha ke cho joalo ke re kea tlatsa, Molula Setulo.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke ne ke kopa hore pele re fetela ho Ntate Molula-Setulo hore tataisa ka Sehlomathiso ho clause ena, ke mpe ke hlakise hore ho bonahala ho na le typo mono, ho na le clause ea 12 sub-clause (1) line ea bobeli mono ka mor’a National Assembly ho ngotsoe ‘to convent’ joale ke ne ke re ke typo re ts’oanela hore re e lokise e ts’oanela hore ebe ‘convene’. E lokela ho ba convene, Litho tse Khabane, hobane ha u sheba (2) ho ntse ho buuoa ka convene joale re ke ke ra sebelisa convent le convene.
Ntate Molula-Setulo, re tataise ka Sehlomathiso, Mohlomphehi oa ka.
CHAIRPERSON: Ntate Molula-Setulo, ke lebohe Tafole le Litho tse Khabane. I arise to move Amendment to clause 12 sub-clause 2 (b) after semi colon (;) to insert or add the sub-clause (c) that will read as follows:
“Defuse potential or actual disagreement between the two Houses on Constitutional matters or any other and remember to number sequentially.”
Ke ne mpa ke re, Mohlomphehi, ntlha ena e bohlokoa haholo, ba se ba e khobotlile. Hantle sepheo sa teng ke hore Matlo ana a mabeli a sebetse ‘moho tabeng ea legislative process moo e bang ho na le ho se bone taba ka tsela e ts’oanang ba ke ba leke ho kholisana pele re ka ra lumellana hore taba ena e re hlotse.
E bohlokoa haholo lintlheng tse latelang:
Mohlomphehi o tla hlokomela hore ho na le moo u ka fumanang hore rea hlokana bobeli ho Matlo ana a mabeli, ebe ka ho se shebe feela litaba ha re ka tima e ‘ngoe Ntlo e ‘ngoe ea tima e ‘ngoe ebe re se re ea ka Potso Sechabeng, ke lits’enyehelo.
Joale empa ho betere ha re ka ra ea mono re tseba hore re ile ra ka ra nka mohato oa pele oa ho bona hore na rea utloana kapa ha re utloane. E bohlokoa haholo taba eno.
Taba ena hape–hape ha se hore re qapa ntho e ncha ka eona, empa ke ne ke ile ka hlokomela hore ba habo rona ka Ntlong eane ea Bakhethoa ba ne ba re e-be Standing Order.
E tlameha hore e laoloe mona pele e tle e re ha re ea ho Standing Orders ra be re tseba hore re arabela ntho eo Constitution e seng e entse profile. Ha e se e ntse e fane ka eona rona ebe re se re il’o e phethisa ka Standing Order kapa ka an Act of Parliament depending na rona re batla ho e bona joang.
Mohlomphehi Kanetsi o buile ntlha e kholo mona ea Likomiti, hore lentsoe lena ‘any other’ ke moo li-presiding officer li ka bonang taba, ba re sechaba – hakere ha se lla ho thoe molli ha thijoe mahlo? Ba tla tla ka mona, ba tla ea ka mane, tichere ea Bonhomme e sa pataloang e tlisa tletlebo ea eona ka mona, e boetse e isa tletlebo ka mane.
Ha re re ho thoe Molula-Setulo ka mane o se a le staging se itseng, joale o hlotsoe. Joale na ke hore rona re e qale ka moo? Litaba tseno li ts’oanetse li nelehetsanoe, Bahlomphehi, hore ho bonahale. Re re, ha re kopaneleng, re sebetse ‘moho, re tsebe ho bona hore rea e rarolla. E leng hore, “any other” e emetse taba eno.
Taba ena joalokaha ke ile ka cho kannete e se e le practice e teng, Ntate Molula-Setulo, linaheng tse ngata! Athe ho tse ling esale e le lelomolo la bona ba sebetsa joalo. Mane America bae bitsa Congress Conference. Ba e bitsa joalo.
Empa ha u fihla Kenya ba tla e bitsa Mediation Legislative. Ke Mokena-lipakeng. Le India e ntse e bitsoa joalo hore moo ebang Matlo a mabeli a sa bone taba ho ke ho be le moo ba laolang Bohlanka ba bona, ho re, tsamaeang le ke le il’o sheba litaba tsena.’Me ha e tloha mono e mong le e mong a il’o etsa report ha habo, ho re, ka mane ka moo ba neng ba fuoe ba sebelitse joang.
E leng hore ha se taba ea maoba mane ha re ne re le hoteleng ha ho thoe na Matlo a tla tla a lula ka nq’a e le ‘ngoe kaofela! Ae! Ena ha e etsetsoe joalo! Ha se mane moo ho il’o bua motho a le mong, empa e etsetsoa hore re ke re e fe mahlo a haufinyane le batho ba ka tsebang hore ba sebetse ka eona, e tle e tsebe ho cho joalo.
Ka ‘nete ‘na ke bona e le ntlha ea bohlokoa haholo hore maikutlo a batho ba ileng ba botsoa hore na ba bona joang ba e bone e le taba ea bohlokoa.
I move, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
QUESTION PROPOSED
HON. SENATOR M. MOSHOESHOE: Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, ka ‘nete, Mohlomphehi, clause ena e tl’o re thusa haholo re le Matlo ana a mabeli. Ua tseba mosebetsi re ne re ntse re o etsa empa ke batla ho bua haholo ka Likomiti moo re neng re thula thaba Likomiting mona- haholo–holo ke qale ka ntlha ea Balula-Setulo.
U ka fumana hore ka mane ka National Assembly ho na le Komiti ea SDGs le ka mona ka Senateng e teng Komiti e joalo ea li SDGs, but joale u fumane hore ha re etsa meralo re etsa li-plan tsa selemo leha re batla ho kopanela mosebetsi li-Standing Order tsa rona li ne li sa re lumelle, Mohlomphehi. Joale empa joale ka ‘nete Amendment ena e tl’o re thusa haholo.
Mohlomphehi oa ka, Likomiti lia sebetsa; ehlile Matlo ana a mabeli a sebetsa haholo ka Likomiti le li-joint sitting tsa Likomiti, joale u bona re tsekisana matla re le Balula-Setulo: Molula-Setulo oa National Assembly a nahana hore o na le matla hafeela re chaketse ka mane ka National Assembly. Ke eena a tla etsa preside over the two committees, ebe uena u le Molula-Setulo oa ka mona o tla u tima matla u tla lula mane holim’a bench mane ebe u ntse u etsa contribute u le mane.
Leha re etsa taba ena ea rona eo re e tsebang mona e bitsoang Public Participation re tla tsoa re le ‘moho re le likomiti re eeng sechabeng koana, ha re fihla ebe re fihla re etsa eona Public Participation sechabeng moo, ha re khutla mono National Assembly e tla iketsetsa report ea eona le rona re iketsetse ea rona ho sena moo re kopanang re etsa report e ts’oanang ebe re tl’o tla ka ntho e le ‘ngoe e tsoarehang!
Ka hona, kannete, Mohlomphehi, ‘na ke bona sehlomathiso sena se tl’o re thusa haholo. Ese ele hore ka morao ho mona hang-hang ha re khutla ra be re se re lokisa taba ea Act of Parliament, re lokisa le li-Standing Orders tsa rona.
Ua hopola, Mohlomphehi, hore re na le Komiti ea rona ea li-Standing Orders ka mona, ‘me e se e le hore mosebetsi ke ona o se o ntse o hlahile e le hore joale re tle re tl’o tla re bona hore na taba ena re tl’o e tsamaisa ka tsela e joang hore re tle re nolofalloe ke mosebetsi?
Sechaba se re shebile mane, Mohlomphehi, u tla utloa ebile ba na le lipuo tse makatsang tsa hore “ae, ha re ka ra isa litaba ka Ntlong ea Senate ka mane li tla sebetsoa ho feta ha re ile ka National Assembly” kapa utloe ba re, “ha re ea bitsoa National Assembly joale re ne re se re ts’epetse hore ha re ka ra tla ka mona ka Ntlong ea Senate ra bitsoa re tla tla re beha litaba tsa rona.” Re bone le ka 10th Amendment ena hore na stakeholders tseo Molula-Setulo a neng a li bitsitse, tse ngata haholo tse fetang leshome le metso e mehlano (15), ha li fihla mona stakeholders tsena li fihlile tsa bolela hore, “ha re ea fuoa monyetla oa ho ea beha litaba tsa rona ka mane ka National Assembly, joale re se re ts’epetse hore re tle ka mona ka Senate”.
Ka hona, ke re ka mants’oe ana, Mohlomphehi, ke tlatsa Sehlomathiso sena hore kannete se mpe se fete re tsebe ho nolofalloa ke mosebetsi.
Kea leboha.
[liatla]
HON. SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Ntate, ke kopa ke tle ke e behe ka mantsoe a makhuts’oane feela a Sesotho a reng;
“Ntlo e itoants’ang e fetoha lesupi”
Ke ho bolela hore Paramente ka bo-eona – ke bolela Matlo ana a mabeli a eona- le bophelong mona batho ekaba bana ba motho feela ka maikutlo ba ke ke ba ts’oana. Kutloisiso eo e bang rona ba bang re na le eona ke ea hore batho tabeng ea ha ho buua ka bohanyetsi ke ho bolela hore batho ba salang e le bohanyetsi ba sale e le loyal opposition. E leng hore kutloisiso ea motho ke e reng batho bano ba sale ba ts’epahalla sechaba sane se tlaase mane.
E mong oa batho bao e ileng ea ka ba keta-pele – hona le motho e mong a behileng ka bokheleke bohle a re, “you must all learn to live together as brothers or you will perish together as fools,” ‘me ke mpa ke bonts’a feela hore re k eke be ra ba ra ts’oana, ebile ho teng ke hore re itjoetse hore litaba tsohle ha re li bua kapa re li etsa re itjoetse feela hore tsohle tseo re li etsang re li etsetsa molemong oa sechaba sa Basotho.
Ha ke buile hakana, Ntate Vice-President, ke kopa ke kokobele. Kea leboha.
[Liatla]
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke re leha ke se ke behile ke e ntse kaletsa ha re ne re bua ka the Amendment from the Minister’s application le mona ke leke ho lokisa litaba, hobane kannete batho ba bang bae e ba tlohe ba senye empa ba ntse ba re ba hloma ho leka hore ba utloahale.
Hona le motho a bonts’itseng hore ka lebaka la thuto eo a neng a e rutoa hore taba ena e liehisoa ka har’a Ntlo ea Senate hobane Ntlo ena e na le batho ba hopolang hore ba tsoetsoe betere, e ile eaba sehlabi, ‘me e lokeloa hore e arajoe, empa ke hantle hore ho tle ho utloahale hore litaba ha li le teng e le tse tla fetola tsobotsi ea Molao li lokeloa hore li nahanoe, li phetloe, li be li shebisisoe, eseng ho potlakeloa hobane ho thoe li tsoa from the National Assembly ka hona li lokeloa hore li tateloe.
Ke ne ke re feela ke eme ho araba taba eo, hobane e ntse e bonts’a tlhokahalo ea kutloano ea Matlo a mabeli. Joale empa ha se hore ha batho ba na le mokhoa kapa maikutlo a fapaneng le a mang ke lehloeo kapa ke bobe; etsoe lihlooho li lokela li fapane, empa litaba li lokisoe ka mokhoa o ts’oanang.
Ke ne ke tla re feela, a-e! Uena moshanyana a monyane u mpa u sa utloisise ha u ntse u re batho ba bang ba lieha ho etsa lintho, hobane u na le bothata ba ho utloisisa litaba. U ntse u hola u tla tseba hore khotla – haeba ha u kaba oa lula khotla, ehlile maikutlo a fapana, empa ha batho ba ntse ba kopanya litaba ba boele ba atlehe ho fumana a common ground, ‘me ho tsoeloe-pele ka kutloano. Empa e le taba feela ea ho araba tsobotsi eo ea hore ha se hore hobane re tsoetsoe ho thoe Ntlo e nang le the majority eo ho thoeng ke Marena re ka etsa litaba ka boikhants’o le boits’epi.
Joalokaha morena oa ka oa Likhoele maobane a ile a bua ka thapelo hore re hlile re etsoa urge, ebile re ipolela ho morena Molimo hore a re fe matla a hore re itebale bo-rona, empa re be ba sebeletsi ba sechaba – ka hona kannete ke utloa ke nyontse le ho nyonya ts’obotsi ea ngoana eno eo ho thoeng ke Machesetsa a ntseng a re borena bo etsa mosebetsi ka lebaka la-ke ho re o bonts’a hore o na le mathata a lets’ollo la le hano!
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka oa Thaba, kea ts’epa o ntse o sa bue ka Setho se Khabane sa Ntlo ea Bakhethoa ba Sechaba?
Honourable Senator Moshoeshoe, u ne u bua?
HON. SENATOR M. M. MOSHOESHOE: Ae, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Question put and agreed to
Clause 12: As amended agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill
Clause 18
HON. R. RABOELETSI (Minister of Law): Kea leboha, Mohlompehi Molula-Setulo. Re tle re shebe page 18 tlaase-tlase ho eona mane. Mona, Bahlomphehi, re kenya e ncha e leng Chapter XIIA eo sehlooho sa eona se buang ka,
“Lesotho Independent Anti-Corruption and Ethics Commission”
Ha re ea ka leqepheng lena la 20 e ea bonts’a hore 135F. (1) hore:
“There is continued in existence the Directorate on Corruption and Economic Offences which shall be known as the Lesotho Independent Anti-Corruption and Ethics Commission”
Ka mantsoe a mang the current DCEO e nyolleloa boemong ba hore ebe Commission, ‘me Commission eo e tla be e bupuoe ka Molula-Setulo oa Commission le li-Commissioner tse ‘ne (4, tse ling e le li-Commissioner tse ‘ne (4) ‘me Director General oa DCEO e tlaba Mongoli oa Commission. Secretariat ea Commission eona e tla boptjoa ka molao, ‘me Director General e le eena Motsamaisi Kakaretso oa eona ebile e le Secretary ebile e le Chief Accounting ea eona Komisi ena.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi, hobane ha joale DCEO kapa Setsi sena sa Toants’o ea Bobolu le Bomenemene e ikarabella ho eona, e na le Board eo mosebetsi oa eona feela e leng Board eo re reng ke ea khiro. E le ho e matlafatsa hore e tsebe ho sebetsa hona le moo ikarabellang teng hantle, ke hore ebe le batho ba e lisitseng, ebe le Commission ka holimo. Joalo feela ka IEC e ntse ena le Motsamaisi oa eona oa letsatsi le letsatsi (Director General), ka holimo ho ntse hona le li-Commissioner! Le eona ena re e kopela hore e tle ebe le Commissioner e tla tseba hore e e tsamaise, ‘me e ikarabella Paramenteng.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi.
HON. MINSTER R. RAMOELETSI: IEC e nts’e-na le motsamaisi oa eona oa letsatsi le letsatsi, ‘Director General’, ‘me kaholimo ho ntse hona le li-Commissioner. Le eona ena re kopela hore e tle e be le Commissioner e tla tseba hore e tsamaise, ‘me e ikarabella Paramenateng.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi.
Question proposed.
HON. K.L.K THEKO: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
E nthabisa haholo ‘formation and the strengthening of this body,’ hobane ke eona e tla ts’ola Puso litabeng tsa involvement, tsa hore Puso e se ke ea iphumana eka e kenya linala litabeng tseo li ka e chesang. Ka hona the independence – boikemelo ba this body e tl’o ba ntho e kholo-hali haholo, ‘me we are hoping hore ‘Muso o ke ke oa etsa intervene, ho kena-kenana le this body, e tle tsebe ho etsa mosebetsi ka bolokolohi, le ho s’a be le lits’itiso tsa mofuta ofe kapa ofe.
We are hoping hore the Executive is not going to intervene. Hapethis body will even have a head e tla tla e tsamaisa joale ebe eena a nkang the responsibility ea ho lokisa litaba ha ho etsoa liphuputso, haholo hobane mosebetsi oa eona this body will be to investigate the Government itself, ‘me haeba Government will want to have a hand, by you Honourable Minister, e le Lekala le tlas’a hau, e ea ba bomalimabe, hobane ha ho na le letho le tla etsahala if you will always look for a word kapa ts’itiso eo u ka e etsang.
E leng ho re he, re rata ho aka Mosebetsi ona hore ke pheko e kholo ea ho felisa hore ‘Muso o itlhatsoe, o emelle ka theko, ‘me o lumelle Body ena hore e tle tsebe ho etsa mosebetsi le ho pasisa ka tsela e nepahetseng.
Ke matla ao kea tsebang hore a itlotla, a hlahella e le liphephetso ho ‘Muso hore na o ka hla oa lumela ho hlahojoa ke Body ee e e hirileng, o ekannang ea e tsamaisa le ka Lichelete, hence re ne re re ha re qeta ho bua ka taba eane ea ‘Independence of the Parliamentary Commission’, le mona ekare this Body can have its own financial support, e tle tsebe ho etsa mosebetsi oa eona kantle le ho etsoa intimidate ke any Ministry.
Rentse re bona hona joale tjena Paramenteng hore National Assembly has been stopped by LEC, ka hore e re, ‘le seke la re etsa investigate’! Why? It is because maybe LEC knows that ho na le ntho eo ba e entseng, joale ba re ba se ke be ba phenyekolloa.
Ke e ‘ngoe ea litaba tse tla tseba ho emisa bobulu haeba re lumella li-Body tsa mofuta ona hore li etse mosebetsi ka botsona, ka eona ‘Public Accounts Committee’(PAC); joale le ena ea DCEO ha li ka tsa hlompheloa matla ano a tsona, re tla bona Puso e tsamaea ka makhethe.
Kea kokobela, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: Ke lebohe, Ntate Molula-Setulo le Litho tse Khabane. Ke ema mona ho sisinya Sehlomathiso sa Clause 18 Sub- Clause 135G (3) line 1 after the word “of”, delete the word “employment”and substitute with the word “service”.
Taba ena empa feela e tlosa hore re se ke ra sebelisa taba ea boemo, empa re tlise boemo boo re ka reng ha u bua ka ‘Service’, ebeu bua ka ts’ebeletso. Re e tlose tabeng ea ‘Bohiri’ kapa ‘Bohiruoa’ empe ebe feela hore re bua ka taba ea ‘Ts’ebeletso’. Taba ena empa e le ho hlomathisa lentsoe leno.
Kea sisinya, Molula-Setulo.
Question proposed.
HON. S.B. SEEISO: Kea leboha.
Che! Ha se phoso hore… ebile u Morena oa ka.
Oa tseba hore ke Ntate kapa homey, empa ha ke tsebe na h’abo ke hokae.
Ae, Ntate, kea leboha.
Ntate Molula-Setulo ha ke sisinyi kapa ha ke thesele letho. Kea kholoa ke ne ke ngotse kae-kae, joale batho ba Molimo! Where I am heading towards, moo ke lakatsang ho hatela teng, moo Ntate Morena oa ka oa Thaba Bosiu a seng a buile teng, ebile e le phephetso ho Matona a haeso a Khabane ka ‘Muso oa Ntate Motlotlehi?
Ke ho re ke ts’epa ho re Ts’its’inyo ena e teng mona, ea phetolelo ea DCEO to this independent body – kea kholoa ke ho ikemela mono, haholo independent, it is not a window dressing ka mantsoe a mang, but it is a genuine, deliberate and purposeful attempt to move forward aggressively; ho nts’a Naha ena le Bohlanka ba naha ena har’a tebe-tebe ea bobolu.
Ke bua tjena, Ntate, ke re Ntate Morena oa Thaba, o s’a buile ka hore, in a similar way or something, or something parallel, independence ena e se ke eaba independence on paper only, but it should be encapsulated ka ho re ebe independence in operation and financing so that ba tseba ho sebetsa ka bolokolohi ho phenyaphenya le ho fatisisa. Ke ee ke utloe ho na le Polelo e reng: ‘Without fear or favour nor without prejudice’.
If we can find this pillar of democracy to be integral in the growth of a clean Parliamentary democracy, and its aspects, re ka leboha, hobane ruri Lichelete tsa naha ena, we have seen, we have heard that a lot of money has leaked away without a trace.
Lesotho for the last 50 years, compared to many African Countries, has had the benefit of a doubt of the extreme impoverishment, to the extent that you wonder why is Maseru so putsoa! Maseru ho ho putsoa, empa ha u ka sheba lipalo-palo the matrix of the amount in contribution, ea li-initiative by Development Partners which they are making to this Country, you will wonder what is going on!
It is not only in the Health sectormoo re bonang majaba-jaba a matle a meaho, but inside lits’ebeletso ha li eo, litlhare li fela har’a nako, ‘me ha us’u botsa na ho etsahetse joang, u bona hore there are leakages; ho na le moo metsi a phunyehileng, a ntseng a tsoa ebe ha mane pompong nkhono a re o il’o kha, ke rothi feela, empa mothamong teng u fumana hore ehlile ke letamohali le ts’oanetseng e be le ea kae? Le ee ho nkhono eane, ho Ntate moholo eane, ho rangoane eane, ho sekooa sane!
Empa joale, Ntate, ke ne ke re this again, ho Matona a haeso le Litho tsena tsa haeso tse Khabane, we are mindful of the fact that ka har’a Naha ena, Ntate Motsamai, re ka etsa Melao – ebile re tlanne re e etse! Feela empa if we cannot change the mind-set ea ngoan’a motho – haeba ho kiloe hoa chenchoa pelo! Esitana le Bible re ntse re e toloka hampe molemong oa hore ebe ke ts’elela ka nq’ane, empa haeba lekhetlong lena, Honourable Ministers, we are genuinely and deeply committed to the conviction of a clean, free and accommodating society…, Ntlo ena le eona e ipehe paneng ka hore ebe bolula qhooa, kaha bo molula-qhooa ba tla bua truth to the powers that be, re se ke ra baleha ‘nete, eaba re ntse re oka seso ka makhapha, hobane re se re bone for the last 50 years, going to 60 years now, hore ‘nete re e baleha joalo kaha eka ke lekhoekhoe kapa letolo! Joale ebe hoo re ka ho mathelang ke bohata ra ba ra phela ka bona!
Molula-Setulo Ntate, ke ne ke mpa feela ke tlatselletsa mono without ho senya ts’obotsi, empa feela ke re e se eka sena se beuoeng ka har’a Sehlomathiso sena, se ka sebetsa, ‘me le batho ba tla fuoa mosebetsi kapa ba tla fumana mosebetsi sebakeng seno ba hopole Lesotho pele, ba se ke ba ikhopola hore na ‘na ke tloha kae, mokheng ofe, nang ke tloha kae kerekeng efe, but a hopole ho re mokha oo a tlohang ho oona pele ke Bosotho.
Kereke eo a tlohang ho eona ke Mosotho, ‘me kobo eo a e apereng ke naha ea Lesotho.
Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
HON. SENATOR M. MOKHATHALI: Ntate Molula-Setulo, ke u hlomphe, ke hlomphe le Litho tsa Ntlo ena le Matona a teng.
Kannete Sehlomathiso sena le ‘na ke utloa ke lakatsa ho bua holimá sona, hobane ke Sehlomathiso se bohlokoa haholo Sechabeng sa naha ena. ‘Me ke na le pelaelo e kholo ea hore le Sechaba sa naha ena moo ba neng ba hlile ba rata hore ho tle ho thetsoe haholo, ke tabeng eona ena ea hore ho tl’o ho etsoe mekutu le meoloane e ka etsang hore naha ena e tle e tsoe kahará bobolu.
Taba ena re e bona hobane Mekha e meng ea lipolotiki nakong ea ho feta e ne e bile e ka etsa campaign ka hore e tla felisa bobolu, ‘me u bone Sechaba se mathela haholo ho e khetha ka tšepo le kutloisiso ea hore seo ba se buang ke ‘nete, ebe re makala ere ha ho fihloa Pusong ebe ha re bone tšits’inyeho ea letho leha ele ho eketsa budget feela e ka thusang hore DCEO e bonahale e etsa mosebetsi.
E leng ho re taba ena e ne e mpa e se e bile e sebelisoa joale ele sebetsa seo Bapolotiki ba ka thetsang Sechaba hore ba tla ba namolela ka sona ka hore ba ‘ne ba re ba tla felisa bobolu, empa ho sena letho le sebelletsang ho matlafatsa Setsi seno hore se tle se fele se phethe mosebetsi oa sona.
Kannete joalokaha Morena oa ka oa Matsieng a chulo, ehlile re ka kopa ba tla kena Pusong hore taba ena e sebe taba feela eo ho ka ithokoang ka eona le eo ho ka hoa ithorisoang ka eona, empe ebe taba ea ‘nete, e tla loantša hore ba tšoereng lichelete tsa ‘Muso le ba tšoereng lithepa tsohle tsa ‘Muso ba li sebelise ka kutloisiso e kholo ea hore ha u utsoa chelete ea Sechaba, u senyetsa Sechaba, u utsoetsa motho ea tlase-tlase – ke ho re ea hlokang le papa eo a e jang. Ke hobane hore a tle a be le papa eo a ka e jang ka tlung ka mono, ke ha ‘Muso o entse mesebetsi ea hore le eena a tle a sebetse.
E leng hore motho ea utsoang, ea utsoetsang ‘Muso ke lesholu le holimo-limo ebile le sehloho, hobane le utsoetsa le motho ea robetseng sepetlele ea lokelang ho fumana litlhare, ebe sebakeng sa hore chelete eno ebe e ea litlhareng tsa hae ebe joale motho o aha ntlo ea hae ea double-storey ka chelete e neng e lokela ho boloka maphelo a batho.
E leng hore kannete re le ba teng botsamaising, ena ke ntho eo re lokelang ho e loantša haholo, ea hore ebe re nka likhafa tsa Sechaba, joale likhafa tse lokelang ho sebelisoa hore li khutle li il’o matlafatsa maphelo ebe joale li fella matsohong a ba fokolang.
E leng hore ke tlatsa hore Sehlomathiso sena kannete ke Sehlomathiso sa bohlokoa haholo seo tšebetso le katleho ea sona e tla ama motho e mong le e mong ho tloha ka lesea le hlahileng kajeno, hobane ha chelete e senyeha, e senyehela le eena eno ea monyane ea s’o tsebe ho bua.
Ke tlatsa hore Sehlomathiso sena kannete ke sa bohlokoa, ‘me re se shebe ka leihlo leno, kea leboha.
Question that Clause 18 as amended stand part of the Bill.
Put and agreed to.
Clause 18 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.CHAIRPERSON: Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, re kopa u re tataise ka Clause 22.
Clause 22 eno e page 24, Litho tse Khabane, ka mono ka ho Bill tsa lona.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI (Minister of Law and Justice): Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo.
Clause 22
Clause 22 e hlomathisa litemana tse latelang: 145 ho isa ho 149, ‘me e bua ka Chapter 13A, eleng National Security. Tlas’a eona 145(1) e re National Security Agencies, ‘me e li qolla li le ‘ne, eleng Lesotho Defence Force, Lesotho Mounted Police Service, The National Security Service and The Lesotho Correctional Service. ‘Me e bontša hore e tlaba tsona feela tseo eleng tsona tsa Molao kahare ho Lesotho.
Temana ea 146(1) eona e bua ka Principles Governing The National Security Agencies hore na ba tla tsamaisoa ka li-Principle tsa mofuta mang.
Ke fetele leqepheng la 26 moo re buang ka hore ho tla etsoa Policy e tsamaisang eona National Security Agency tsena, e leng temana ea 147.
Temana ea 148 eona e bua ka National Security Council eo e tla be e le eona e ka holimo-limo, e le structure se ka holimo se shebaneng le tsamaiso ea Litsi tsena tseo re seng re buile ka tsona.
‘Me Molula-Setulo oa eona ke The Prime Minister, Motlatsi oa Prime Minister, Minister responsible for National Security Agencies, International Relations and Finance, The Attorney General, The Chief of Defence Staff, The Chief of Lesotho Mounted Police Service, The Director General of National Security Service, The Chief of Lesotho Correctional Service and The Government Secretary – e le eena eo e tla ba mongoli oa Council ena.
Temana ea 149 e bua ka mesebetsi ea Council, ‘me ho na le Clause e ncha e kenang eleng 149A ho isa ho 149R.
149 A eona e bua ka National Security Commission, ‘me le eona e ntse e bontšitse Litho tsa eona, ‘me e tla thehoa ka Molao.
Re tle re fetele hape ho mesebetsi ea eona Commission eo page 29 e leng 149B. E bontša hore the functions of the Commission shall be provided for by an Act of Parliament.
Re fetele ho 149C e buang ka hore na appointment of Heads and Deputies of National Security Agencies, eleng tsona li-Chief tsane le batlatsi ba bona hore na ba tla khethoa joang ho fuoa mosebetsi oo ba tla o tsamaisa.
149 D e bua ka Lesotho Defence Force le mesebetsi ea eona le deployment of the Lesotho Defence Force.
149 F e ea bontša hore ke mang ea tla ba fa mosebetsi hore na ba ka ea mesebetsing joang ea bohlokoa, mohlomong ka ntle ho naha.
149 G ke Lesotho Mounted Police Service. Le eona e ea bontša hore na mesebetsi ea eona e tla thehoa joang ‘me e tla boptjoa ka Molao oa Paramente.
National Security Service e hlaha temaneng ea 149 I. Le eona e ntse e bontša hore mesebetsi ea eona – the functions of National Security Service e tla matlafatsoa ka Molao oa Paramente.
Ebe ea ho qetela ke Lesotho Correctional Service. E e hlaha hona page 32 e leng 149 K. Ka mokhoa o tšoanang le eona e ntse e bontša hore na mesebetsi ea eona ke efeng, le hore e tla thehoa ka Melao ea Paramente.
Ke tsoele-pele ka 149 M e buang ka Composition and Appointment ea tsona Litsi tsena hore na ba tla khethoa joang le hore na ke bo mang ba tla tseba hore ba lule moo. Temana ea pele A e re, Chairman who shall be a former Judge and who shall be appointed by the National Security Commission… e leng hore ke bona ba tla be ba etsa mosebetsi oo ke seng ke buile ka oona le hore na functions tsa Commission eno e tla ba li feng.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, ke kopa hore ke eme hakana.
Question, that Clause 22 as amended stand part of Bill, proposed.
CHAIPERSON: Morena oa Thaba.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi ke ema feela ho tlatsa Letona le Khabane holim’a litaba tseo a qetang ho li beha ka bokhabane bo tšabehang ka establishment ea our Security Establishments.
Lesotho le bile le likhathatso tsa lona ka lebaka la hore Mebuso e fetileng e ile eaba le lenyora le lehabea la ho lula le kena-kenana le Litsi tsena ele hore e tle e tsebe ho li etsa control. Kannete ho tloha ka nako ea Morena Leabua, we all know hore ha a ka a rata ho sebetsa a sena control ea Mapolesa kapa Masole le Litsi tse ling tseo ekang eona NSS.
Re tseba bothata bo neng bo etsahala ho tloha ka bo 1967 Thaba-Bosiu mono na ho ne ho etsahale eng.
Re tseba linakong tsa ntate Rathomo TY ka mane a ne a otloe ka koto, a bolaoa ke batho ba Congress party. Le hona holim’a Thaba-Bosiu moo ho kile hoa etsahala lintho tse mpe. Hoa etsahala lintho tse mpe Rothe, hoa etsahala lintho tse mpe mona Maseru.
Rea tseba hore ho na le batho ba baholo ka hare ho taolo ea Sesole ba ileng ba bolaoa; le kahar’a taolo ea Sepolesa hoa ‘na hoa ba le lipolao.
Ntate Motsamai o ile a etsa mosebetsi o moholo haholo ka Komiting ea habo hore ho tl’o tla ho ba le boipono ba Masole hore bona ba ne ba ka lakatsa, as stakeholders and part and parcel of those bodies hore na ba ka rata hore hore e tle ebe boikemelo ba bona bo lokolohile na ho tla ba joang, ba ka rata ha ho le joang.
Kea kholoa litaba tse hlahileng mona tseo ntate a qetang ho li hlalosa hantle, Letona le Khabane, ke ho bontsá their insertions hore ba hlahisitse maikutlo a hore ekare ho ka ba tjena re tle re tsebe ho qoba political intervention.
Ntho e kholo ke eona eno ea hore ekare litsi tsena li ke li tlohelloeli se na infiltration ea batho ba lipolotiki kapa batho ba ka ratang ho khelosa bosebeletsi ba tsona.
Ka hona kea kholoa ke o mong oa mesebetsi ea mantlha, hobane re ile ra tseba, ra ba ra bona lipolaeano tsa Masole a mang ha ho tla bolaoa ntate Mahao, ntate Mots’omots’o le Bashanyana ba babeli ba litlokotsebe ba Masole ba ileng ba bolaoa.
Ke litaba tse e leng tsa rona, tse phetseng, tseo re phelang ka tsona, tseo re lokelang hore re li hlakole, ‘me Sesole se be le independence ea sona ho se na infiltration ea batho ba lipolotiki. Joale empa batho ba lipolotiki bona ba na le lenyora le ts’abehang la hore ba lule ba na le taolo kahar’a Security Agencies.
Joale empa ka mokhoa oo re batlang hore litaba tsena li etsahale, re se re rapela hore e tle ebe ka’nete re bone. Ha re sa lakatsa hore pheta-pheto ena e boele e etsahale ea hore ho kena-kenanoe le litaba tsena. Re batla ho sebetsoe mosebetsi ka bohlanka.
Maoba re bone hore Litsi tsena – ke utloile eka le Sepolesa se tla etsa mosebetsi o ts’oanang moo batho ba lekanyang hore 10 000 people went to look for 500 jobs. You can imagine batho bao hore na e ne e le batho ba bakae ba khutlileng ba sa fumanang mosebetsi. E ntse e le taba, mohlomong Sepolesa le sona se tla hlahisa another 500 or a 1000 ka lebaka la the demand eo re ka ra bang le eona.
Re ntse re re ho tle ho hiroe ka nepo eseng ka ho sekama joale ka ha ho na le mathata ao re a bonang a hore lenyora lona la babusi le batho ba lipolotiki le ntse le phahame haholo hore ba kena kenane le Litsi tsena.
Ke mpa ke ema ka hore ha re ke re rapellaneng, re rapelisaneng hore litaba tsena tsa Litsi tsena tse ‘ne li hlomphehe mahlong a sechaba sa Basotho le Mebuso e teng.
Kea kokobela, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
‘Na ke bona process ena e re khutlisetsa morao, Ntate Molula-Setulo. Ke bone hore ke mokhelo kahará Ntlo ena ke itsamaela ke le mong, empa, che, ke se ke tloaetse ntate Molula-Setulo. Ha ho na taba ke itsamaele ke le mong joalo, ke tsamaee le Jesu, ntate Molula-Setulo.
Ntho eo ke e bonang ke hore Council ena kapa Clauses tsena tseo ntate Letona le Khabane a li behileng, ho na le Clause mono e reng Sesole sa Lesotho se ka ea ntoeng ka taolo ea Tona-Kholo, ‘me mono ha ho na moo ke bonang Motlotlehi teng mong’a naha.
Ke utloa Morena oa Thaba a ntse a bua ka ho ntsá Sesole lipolotiking, joale ke qetetse Tona-Kholo e le mopolotiki. Ho thoe bo Tona-Kholo ba khale ke bona bao ntate Mahao a shoeleng ka lebaka la bona kapa ba hlokahetseng ka lebaka la bona.
Joalo ka Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao re tempela eona taba eno ea hore Tona-Kholo, rapolotiki e moholo ea ka tlas’a Motlotlehi, akhone hore a etse tsohle tseo a li ratang, a re ise naheng re sa tsebe empa Motlotlehi a ntse a le teng!
Ha ke utloisise na ha Tenth Amendment ena e isoa Paramenteng kapa the original version ea eona e isoa Ntlong ea Bakhethoa e ne e ntse e na le Motlotlehi ele eena Hlooho ea State Council eona ena ea Tsamaiso ea Mabotho – ‘me kannete Bakhethoa ka botsebi ba bona ba mo nts’a ho Council eno.
Ha ke utloisise, Beng ba ka, haeba re re re batla stability Sesoleng, Tona-Kholo oa tsamaea every 5 years – o fana ka stability sefe seo? Lintoa tsena tseo esale li le teng ka hare ho Lesotho mona ho tloha ka tsona likhetho, ele bapolotiki ba tsekisana ka mekhoa e fapakaneng, joale re re Sets’oants’o see sa Molao se ka thiba taba eo?
Ka’nete ‘na ntate Molula-Setulo le Komiti ea h’eso litaba tsena tsa lona ke utloa eka le tloaela Basotho hampe. Basotho ba le joetsitse hantle na ba batla le etse eng, le itsoela ka la pholo khoaba le iketsetsa tsa lona.
(Backround voices): Hula mantsoe a hore re tloaela Basotho hampe! Ekare ha u bue Litho ha u re ba tloaela Basotho hampe! Litho ha li tloaele Basotho hampe. A hule haeba u bua ka Litho tse Khabane.
HON SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Ha ke bue ka bona hee, ntate!
HON SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Ke ne ke re ebe taba e on record hantle hore ha re na le maikutlo a ka fapanang le Morena oa ka oa Mokhotlong, ha se ho tloaela batho ba bang hampe. Re lokela re lokise polelo eo hore re tle re tsebe ho hlomphana.
U beuoe tlhorong e kholo ea ho ba Morena oa Sehlooho, oa beoa hore u tla ba Moetapele oa College of Chiefs. Joale a se ke a senya tsóbotsi ea tlhompho eo re ntsengre mo neha eona ka lebaka la bohlasoa bono boo a bo etsang.
Mohlomphehi, ere ntate a hule mantsoe ano a itukise hantle a tle a tsebe ho hlompha. Che, leha a ka halefa a halefela taba eo, ha a ka a lokise!
Ntate, re thuse hore a itukise.
HON SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, ntate Molula-Setulo.
‘Mé Mofumahali o nthusitse mona.
Hana u its’eng, ‘mé Mofumahali?
Oh! le bonahala le sa hlomphe maikutlo a Basotho ka mosebetsi ona oo le ntseng le o etsa letsatsing lena, Beng baka, haholo eona Clause ena ho feta tse ling.
Ke batla ho hata haholo tabeng ea ho se hlomphe maikutlo a Basotho, ntate Molula-Setulo. Ho itsoe ho ile ha etsoa –preliminary findings mona hoaa pota-potoa, ‘me Basotho ba botsoa hore na ba batla’ng hantle. Hoa etsoa ntho eane eo ho thoeng ke hleke-hleke ha u utloa e boleloa. Hleke-hleke eno kea kholoa e hlekefelitsoe le hofeta hobane e (ha ke re e faotsoe ho tla thoe ke bua hape hampe, banna!) faotsoe (ha ke tsebe leha eba lentsoe leno le parliamentary). E tlositsoe matla… ba tla ‘ne ba nthuse bana bana b’eso. Kea leboha ka’nete! Sesotho ke ntho e thata.
Ho na le clauses tsa bohlokoa, ntate Molula-Setulo, tse neng li tlameha hore ebe li kene mono, hobane ‘na e ile ea re ha ke joetsoa process ena, ‘me ka bona ke sa e utloisisi ho latela ka mokhoa oo ke bileng mokhelo kateng ho bana bana b’eso bana.
Ha re joetsoa process ena ho ile hoa thoe: ka lebaka la lintoa tsena tse ngata tsena tse bileng teng Lesotho ka lebaka la polotiki, ho etsoa reforms ‘me li etsetsoa hore ho tle ho lokisoe polotiki ea Lesotho kapa tsamaiso ea naha.
Ke mokhoa ona Basotho ba ileng ba botsoa maikutlo a bona ‘me ba fana ka ona maikutlo ano a bona. Sechaba ke poho, empa joale ha ba fihla ka hare ho Ntlo ea Bakhethoa ka mane Sechaba sea faoloa kapa se tlosoa matla.
HON SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: Kea leboha, ntate Molula-Setulo.
Setho se Khabane se ntse se bua hantle, Morena oa ka ka lintlha tseo a li ts’oereng. Feela potso eo ke e botsang ke hore na o ile a ka a sheba page 30 149 f Clause 2 ea eona ea Sets’oants’o sena seo re se ts’oereng? Na o kile a e sheba na?
MOHAMI MOTSOANE THURSDAY 05/05/2025 PHOOKO
HONOURABLE SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Ntate Motsamai ka potso eno ea hau. Mohlomong ehlile ke eteletse litaba pele leha Clause eno ea 141 (f)_ le tseba, beng ba ka, hore Motlotlehi ha a na lentsoe; hothoe “on the advice of”, e leng hore Motlotlehi ha a na lentsoe.
Motlotlehi ha a hana litaba mona o joetsoa feela! Ebile ke ee ke utloe eka ha hana mang mang oa mo saenela – eena Tona-Kholo. E leng hore, ‘on the advice of’ e bolela hore Motlotlehi ha a na lentsoe. Ke e bale, Ntate?
Ho na le Clause e mona eo ekanna eaba ke pele (kopa ke utsoe ena ea hao, ‘Me Anna) e pampiring tsena tse tala. Kapa ebe ke se ke le pele lihlomathisong moo ebileng ho koptjoang hore ho tlosoe Motlotlehi ho behoe Tona-Kholo?
Eona o e balile Ntate Motsamai. Ua e tseba, Ntate Motaung? Ua e tseba? E-e? Bona ba ntse ba re ke bale- ebe lona le ntse le bala? E teng, Ntate, re e filoe ha ke tsebe leh eba uena ba u timme.
U nt’soarele, Letona la ka le Khabane, haeba uena ba u timme eona. E chenchile eona Clause ena, ntate Motsamai; mona moo hothoeng ho tla thoe Motlotlehi e re ho tla thoe ‘Tona-Kholo’.
MR VICE PRESIDENT: Morena oa ka, ke kopa u se ke ua bua le ba fats’e u bue litaba tsa hao. U se ke ua bua le ba fats’e, hobane litaba tsa hao lia lelefala, hobane joale u bua le ba fats’e.
HONOURABLE SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Nt’soarele, Ntate! Ua bona ka hore ha kea tloaela ho bua, joale ‘na litaba tsena lia nt’sokolisa, Ntate. Empa joalo ka ha ke cho, beng ba ka, ka ‘nete ho ne ho na le li-Clause tse bohlokoa haholo tse neng li tlameha_ haeba ka ‘nete re ne re latela litaba-tabelo tseno tsa Basotho tsa hore re lokiseng naha ena eabo rona Clause ea floor crossing le Clause ea Local Authorities li ne li tlameha hore ebe li teng ka mona.
Ho buua ka Clause on Chieftainship, empa ha hona litaba tsa Chieftainship hohang ka har’a Molao ona, empa mane moo ho ngoetsoeng li-objective and what not tsa Molao ona ho boletsoe ka mokhoa oo Chieftainship eng-eng, but ha hona letho la Chieftainship ka mono!
Ho joang, Ntate Motsamai? Ke ntse ke bala hantle?
Joale ka ‘nete, Marena a ka le bah’eso ba teng ka mona, ehlile haholo ka Clause ena ea Sesole ke t’soenyehile, but ke t’soentsoe haholo ke the general manner eo re etsang Molao ona o moholo o tlamehang hore o ise Basotho pele, hore such a piece of Legislation e fuoa letsatsi hore ebe joale re be re e qetile e be e fete. Ka ‘nete ha se feela Lesotho le ferekaneng tjena, beng ba ka! ‘Me ha feela re ntse re etsa tjena ha hona ntho e tla loka.
Ha ke joetsoa ho ne ho itsoe Ntlo ena ea Senate ke Oversight House, joalekutloisiso ea ka e ile eaba hore ke eona e tlamehang hore haeba Ntlo ea Bakhethoa e tsamaea ka lebatha ebe joale e’a ba thiba, ‘me matsatsi ana ke bone eka ha ele hantle we are a rubberstamping authority; ha bane ba fetisitse lintho rona hoa rona feela ke hore li fete, kea kholoa re tsebe ho koala! Kapa, che, nka fuoa mabaka a mangata hore na hoban’eng re tatile tjee? Feela empa beng ba ka ele bana ekaka ha re etsetse Basotho toka.
E leng hore moo ‘Muso o fosang kapa Bakhethoa ba fosang – ba t’sepetseng ho rona hore linnete tseno tsa bona re li hlahise, ‘me re li emele, ke bona re sa etse joalo.
Kea leboha, Ntate Molula- Setulo, leha o ntlohelletse ka bua le tseo e seng tsona, Ntate.
Kea leboha.
HONOURABLE SENATOR MOTSAMAI: Ke lebohe, hle, Ntate Molula-Setulo, lehau se u e t’soara joalo ka ha eka ke ka kerekeng ka mona, Ntate.
Ntlha ea ka e kholo e mona tabeng ena ea t’sireletso ka kakaretso hore_ ke ne ke re, Ntate Molula-Setulo, Ntlha ea ka e tabeng ena ea lintlha tsa t’sireletso ka kakaretso, tseo kutloisiso eleng hore litaba tsa morao tjena tsa t’sireletso li se li bua ka taba ea ntho e bitsoang The Human Security as opposed to emphasizing taba ea State Security.
Ke taba ea morao ena, ‘me litsi tsena ha li hlophuoa bocha tjena eka le ka liketso li ka bonahala li sekamela ka lehlakoreng leno. Ke tena ke cho tjena, Honourable Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office, hobane ke ee ke bone Litabeng tsa T’sireletso ho tse ling tsa tsona u li hula pele, ‘me le ka taba ena ea boemo bona ba hona joale e reng ha ho hiroa ho batloa batho ba makholo a mahlano ho ea lipalo-palo tseno – joale ebile u bont’sa hore ho ee bana mohlomong ba entseng foromo ea bohlano, haeba ke ntse ke e nepa hantle…
Ntate, Boemo ba hona joale ba litaba tsa T’sireletso bo se bo phahame haholo ,u se u hloka batho bao u reng ke field ea engineering, batho bao u reng ke field ea forensic, batho bao – _ ke ho re litsebo tsena tseo re reng ke tse re thusang hore the modern equipment ea sesole u tsebe ho tseba hore na ba e ts’oara ts’oara joang hore e nke boemo ba bona, ‘me taba eno e bolela hore u t’soanela u nyolle mokhoa oa hore na bana u tla ba nka kae, ‘me taba eno e tle e tsebe ho re thusa hore re tsebe ho tla boemong bona.
Ho feta mono taba eno ke eona e tla re thusa ha ho buua hore ha e le mona re fana ka boemo bona mona re tsebe ho tla ka taba ea security policy e tsebang ho etsa brand human security and the state security, ‘me ke nthoe t’soanelang e ke e potlakeloe haholo eno. Joale empa ho feta mono le t’soanela le ke le il’o ikeletsa hore na re etsa joang hore re tsebe ho tlisa litsebo tseno kapa bana ha ba kena le ba fetise ba tsebe hore na ba ea hokae.
Ke tena ke cho tjena, Ntate, hobane ho ntse ho na le mekhoa e mengata, re ntse re nkile batho bano ba banyanenyana lilemong kapa ka thuto hore na lenyalo la litsi tsa t’sireletso_ lekhetlong lena – ke batla ho bua ka Sepolesa le Sesole mohlomong, che, le bana ba bang, empa teng nkeke ka nka haholo.
Ke hore na enyalo la bona le li Tertiary Institutions tse t’soanang le Lerotholi in the engineering re li bona joang. Joale taba eno e bohlokoa haholo. E bohlokoa haholo, Ntate Honourable Minister, hore re tsebe ho e bona taba eno hore na re ka re sebetsa joang, hobane the modern world now e se e le lefat’se la li drone ,‘me haeba rona re sitoa ho tlisa technology eno mona re il’o e lata re e reka ka boturu feela re tseba hore re tla tseba ho e sebetsa mona re tla hula ka boima haholo. E se e bolela hore na lenyalo la litsi tsena tsa t’sireletso le sebopi ka mona ka Fokothi ena e oelang tlas’a Ministry of Communication, … ena e ka mona na re e sebetsa joang.
Ke taba ea bohlokoa haholo, feela kea tseba ekanna eaba ha u s’o e chakele. U tle u ke u e chakele, le iphe nako ea ho e feta le utloisisa hore na tsela eo e sebetsang ka eona na ha e nyolleloa holimo – _ hobane ba qhaqholla ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe.
Ke hore le 4+1 ena ea Honda fit e ngata ena ba ka e qhaqholla joale ba tsebe hore ba hahe ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe e hlahang ho Honda Fit, so, e bolela hore ha re sa lata ka ntle ha re tl’o lokisa li spare parts tsa Honda fit re ka nyolla ntho eno.
Ke mane moo ke reng u etsa brand hore production ea hao le khiro ea hao u e tsebe. _
Unless re leba tabeng ea manufacturing, Bahlomphehi, re ke ke ra tseba ho arabela tlokotsi ena e tlang. Re ntse re haha bomo e tla qhoma mahlong a rona ka sechaba sena sa bacha sena. Ke tsela e kotsi habohloko, ‘me ke re re t’soanela re e bone ka leihlo leno ha e le mona re ba fa matla ana; re tl’o sebetsa tsela ena ea bona feela re se ke ra ba le sesole se tloaelehileng. Sena sa rona se tlaelehile. Re se ke ra ba le sepolesa se tloaelehileng nako ena kaofela; in any other stage se phelang hantle moo bothata bo leng teng ho bitsoe lihlopha tseno li fihle li kena hona teng.
Ha lingaka li teraeka nakong eno eo li ntsengli teraekile rea tseba re na le lingaka tsa sesole le manese a sesole hore a tl’o tla a etsang, a koale mono hore re thibe kotsi eno. Ke taba eane eo re buileng ka eona ea human security. Ha lijo le tlhahiso li haella rea tseba re bitsa bona re tsebe ho ba kenya mono ka nako eno.
Feela joale tsela eo ke bonang re khanna ka eona, Bahlomphehi, ha ke bone eka re shebela pele; re shebela haufinyane mona hore re t’sele molatsoana, empa the future e hloka re eme re ee pele.
Ha re le mona letsatsing lena re re the next 60 years re tla be re na le sesole sa mofuta ofe. The security architecture ea lefat’se e re beha hokae? Haeba ke security diplomacy re hokae ka eona? Mohlomong re tla bona hore re etsa invest ho eona.
Ke hore South Africa re ngoaeane le eona ka litelu, ka linko le ka litsebe, feela rona re etse emphasize tabeng eang ea diplomacy in the security… ebe re tiisitse ka nq’eno.
I think Molao ona o tla re thusa, Ntate Molula-Setulo, hore ha u tloha mona ba tle ka policy e tla tseba hore e re behe moo re tla tseba ho beha hore na lilemo tse mashome a t’seletseng tse tlang security sector ea Naha ena ka kakaretso ka mafapha ‘ohle a eona e tla be e le hokae. Re tloha tabeng ena feela hore the hardware we may not necessarily maintain it for long, feela seore se hlokang ke the diplomacy ea eona le taba ea eona e tla re thusa hore re ee pele hore na ka hae ka mona e etsa respond tabeng ea human security, material services ka tsela ea mofuta o joang, ba le competent to deal with that.
Kea leboha.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, ke ne kopa hore pele ke fa Morena oa ka oa Melele ekare u na le ntlha, kahoo ke u fa monyetla.
Ke tla tla ho uena, Morena oa ka oa Melele, kamor’a Mohlomphehi Letona.
HON. SENATOR R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. E ile ea re ha ke ntse ke tsamaisa Sehlomathiso sena sa Temana ena ea 23 se secha ke ile ka bont’sa hore se na le Litemana tse tlohang ho 149(a) ho ea ho 149(r) ‘me ke ile ka hema ha ke fihla ho 149(o) _34, ‘me ke ne ke bua ka kakaretso ka litsi tsena tsa t’sireletso tseo Bahlomphehi ba li khobotlang hantle.
Joale ke ne lakatsa hore ke kenyeletse bophatlalatsi, hobane le bona bophatlalatsi bo hlile bo hloka hore re be le nako ea hore re bue ka bona hantle, hobane 149(p) ke eona e buang ka bophatlalatsi, e leng general principles of the media, hore na re reng ka bona, hobane joale bo ka luka khotso kapa bo ka etsa hore khotso e be teng. Esitana le ho faneng ka eona taba ena ea promotion of freedom of speech kapa freedom of expression ha ba sa laoloa hantle mono re ka ‘na ra ba le mathata.
Joale ke bonts’e hore 149Q e bua ka hore ho tla ba le Media Council of Lesotho e tla tseba hore joale e lise…
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Letona le Khabane, ke ntse ke leka ho sheba mona, ke utloa eka ho thoe u se u kene ka har’a Clause 23.
Joale re ne re re re bue ka Clause 22; ha re fetele ka har’a Clause 23.
HON. SENATOR M.C. MAKHAOLA: Ke kopa ho ema ka Ntlha ea Tsamaiso. Ke kopa ho ipiletsa ho lona, ho re, oeele, litaba tsena tsa li-reform ke bona le li nka hanyenyane, Matebele! Le li-issue tse kholo tse serious…
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Ke Litho tse Khabane, ha se Matebele!
HON. SENATOR M.C. MAKHAOLA: Ke hula taba eo ea Botebele boo ke bo bolokang ka ho ‘na. Ke ne ke re, oeele, Bahlomphehi ba ka, Marena a ka, tlas’a kano e kholo eo le e nkang, tlas’a Hlooho ea Naha e leng Ntate Motlotlehi, ho na le mantsoe ana a ‘Bots’epehi le ho boloka litaba tseno kaofela’.
Kannete re masoabi hore litaba tsa li-reform ha li sebetsoa ho tla ba le liphetoho tse kholo tse etsahalang, tse bonahalang, tse utloahalang, tse buuoang ke batho bao e leng Litho tsa Ntlo ena ea Mahosana.
Ke bua ka Section 148 ea li-reform, hore ho na le this original NRA Tenth Amendment. “…the apex security structure of the National Security Council to be chaired by the King”. Section 148, ke original ea litaba tsa li-reform. E leng ho re e ne e le maikutlo a tsoang sechabeng.
Basotho ha ba ne ba etsa tjena, ba ne ba etsa hobane ba utloisisa hore na polokeho le ts’ireletseho ea sechaba e bolela’ng.
Kannete ke ne ke re mohlala feela, haeba ho etsoa shift that power to the Prime Minister, what if one day we have a criminal Prime Minister eo e leng ho re e tl’o nka Mabotho e a etsa deploy for his or her own private interests tsa li-criminal? Mohlomong a be a nka Litho tsa Ts’ireletso, a li sebelisa sebakeng sa hae ho li hirisa sebakeng sa lithahasello le litlhoko tsa hae tsa bo-criminal.
Kamoso ha ho ka etsahala litaba tseo teng re tle re re kannete re ile ra jara boikarabello ba ho fana ka matla a boikarabello ba litaba tsa ts’ireletso ea naha? Ke litaba tse ngata haholo.
Kannete taba ena ha se eo re lokelang ho saoha ka eona. Haeba Lesotho mona re nka ts’ireletso hanyenyane – ‘na ke holetse ka har’a Mabotho, ke bile a Boy Soldier; I know about Security. Ha ke na ho bua feela – ke bua feela hore na ho kopanya 4+1 ea Honda Fit na ke ho etsang, empa ke tla bua ka ho k’hok’ha AK-47, ke supa motho. Joale ho nkoa Security eka ke litaba tse bapalang! Ha se papali – Security ke litaba tse serious.
Litaba tsena li etsahala hobane re generation Lesotho mona e hlahileng esale re ora letsatsi, ho le monate Lesotho mona. Basotho ba ile ba oa, sechaba sane sa khale sa Morena Moshoeshoe sa oa se iketsa sacrifice, mali a sona a rotha, a qhalana holim’a lefats’e lena, hore ebe kajeno re na le naha.
Ts’ireletseho ea naha ena ha ea lokela hore ho bapaloe ka eona. This is a serious matter. (LITS’EHO)… Leha le ntse le ts’eha, Bahlomphehi, ha se taba e bapalang ena. Ts’ireletso ha se papali, leha e-ba taba ena ea qabola.
Mohlomphehi, ‘na ke mathile, ke phetse lefats’eng mona. Ke bile ka hare ho Mabotho a lichaba tsa lefats’e tse ling, ke tseba hore na litaba tsa Ts’ireletso – ha ho buuoa ka ts’ireletso ho buuoa ka’ng. Kannete ke bona ho saohuoa ka litaba.
Kannete haeba issue ke ho re matter o mokana-kana ka hare ho The Tenth Amendment o nkoa lightly tjena, kapa ho bapaloa ka oona, kapa ho etsoa shift maikutlo ao e neng e le a sechaba originally from the apex of NRA, e leng maikutlo a sechaba!
Kannete it is better mohlomong UN as the Core Funder ea hore li-reform li etsahale Lesotho mona should call off the funding, and let this be the collapse of the reforms!
This is a serious matter, a k’u e shebeng hape ka mokhoa o mong, Bahlomphehi ba ka!
Ke boeletsi boo ke fanang ka bona sebakeng sa bokamoso ba naha ena. Ha re nkeng litaba tse serious ka bo-serious ba tsona. Ha se papali taba ena, ke maikutlo a sechaba ho tloha ka original NRA, ‘me joale haeba a tl’o fetoloa ka letaese la lithahasello tsa ba bang ba nang le maikutlo a fosahetseng, ka hare ho puso ea sechaba – sechaba se sekalenyana, kannete, se fumanehileng kathata hakana – joale esale re ora letsatsi, ho le monate Lesotho mona.
Ha ho senyeha, ha re tsebe, ha re na experience ba bangata ba rona, re generation eo e leng ho re – kannete ke ne ke re re se ke ra nka litaba tsena tsa Security hampe, or else, this is the collapse of the reforms. UN should reap with all the support eo ebang ba re file eona, then re nke bohato, ho be le Special Meeting, then ho bonts’oe hore mona hoa bapaloa, Basotho ha ba serious ka letho.
Kea kokobela, Mohlomphehi.
HON. SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Mohlomphehi, Mosotho oa pele o ne a ee a re mosha ha o fula oa qamaka. Ebe Monyesemane eena o re, look before you leap.
Ha re tla re shebane le litaba tsa Security – ena, ka ‘nete eohle, ke kopa hore re se ke be ra phahamisa maikutlo, feela re bue taba ka mokhoa oo motho ka mong a e bonang kateng.
Ha ho na Mosotho ea ka iphapanyang kapa a itebatsa litaba tse kileng tsa etsahala ka har’a naha ena. Ha re ke re hopotsaneng hore taba ena ea ha hothoe – karolo e neng e itse pele, Ntate Motsamai, ho ne ho itsoe taba ea taolo e be ho Motlotlehi.
Ha re na ho iphapanyetsa hore linakong tsa ho feta, ka likarolo tse ling tsa Litona-Kholo tse fetileng – mohlala, ha re tle tabeng ea Ntate Kamoli le Ntate Maaparankoe.
‘Nete e teng ke ea hore Ntate Motsoahae Thabane o ile a etsa liqeto tseno ho sa ba le moo a ileng a batla maikutlo a batho ba bang.
Hana litaba tseo li ile tsa fella hokae? Maaparankoe Mahao o shoele. Ke batla hore re tle re hopole kapa re shebe ‘nete ea taba ea bohaisane. Ha re tla tabeng ea ha hothoe batho ba ka etsa deploy, hape re tla ‘neteng eo ke reng le Paramenteng ea South Africa batho bao e ntseng e le litho tsa Paramente hona tjena, Ntate Tau, ba ntse ba le lipotsong esitana le ba bang bao e leng opposition ba re na South African National Defence Force na e ile ea ea DRC ka mabaka afeng!
Le hona joale tjena ntate Zuma ha s’o ka a e araba potso eo, bana ba batho ba shoele ka mokhoa oo ke reng re itjoetse hore, Ntate Motsamai, re sebetseng taba ena ka maikutlo a tlaase, feela re shebe li ‘nete tse teng, tsa batho bao ho ka thoeng ke keta-pele ea batho ba khethiloeng hore na hana ba sebetsa litaba joang.
Hona joale tjena ha ho na motho a hlakang kapa a fanang ka taba ea hore na eona SANDF e ile ea ea DRC – Ke ho re ha u shebile ua bona hore ho ne ho na le lithahasello tsa motho eo eleng president. Ho na le litaba tseo ke nkang, joalokaha ntate Ramoeletsi maobane a re re ho be le litaba tsa treaty, tseo re nahanang hore ha ho nepahetse ho tlameha ho ke ho batloe maikutlo ho sechaba hore na hoban’eng ho ka thoe treaty ke ena…ho ke ho fumanehe Sechaba se hlomphuoa ka hore ho utloahale hore maikutlo a sona na ke afe.
Ke nka hore hona tjena Lesotho mona re na le TV Station, ‘me, ke nka hore ho na le seea-le-moea sa sechaba seo ke nkang hore le hona litabeng tse kang tsena, ekare re ka e sheba ka qenehelo hoba ke re ntate Thabane ha tla qetella a ts’etse Mohokare mafapha a ts’íreletso – haholo lefapha le kang la NSS ke lefapha le bohlokoa-hlokoa feela e ntse e tla ba hore na likoloi, Armaroks, e be li ile tsa tsoa ka har’a Makonyane li be li tl’o tla lifihla Maseru East mona – NSS e ne le ho kae?
Ke eno eo re reng ekare taba ena re ka e sheba re sa tata, re se ke ra itjoetsa ka hore re fa motho eo e leng Tona kholo matla. Ke ba tla ke tle ke tle litabeng tseo ekabang re bua ‘nete ka tsona, tsa hore bana ba motho ha ba tsóane, ‘me ka mokhoa o tsóanang le Li tona-kholo tsa naha ena li ke se tsóane. Re tl’o fa motho oa polotiki – motho ea ka fapanang le ntate Matekane? (Ha ke re Matekane enoa a teng).
Ka botho, ntate Ramoeletsi le litho tse Khabane, mohlang matla ao re a fang motho ea nang le mefokolo kapa eo re ka qetellang re fumana re file lehlanya selepe ho tlang ho etsahala ka hare ho Naha ena e tla tla e ba eng? Re ke ke ra iphapanyetsa, ntate VicePresident hore polotiking motho tumelo ea hau ke ea hore polotiki ke ho fetola le ho sheba boiketlo ba sechaba sa Basotho.
Bathong karolo e’ngoe ha e buelella ntate Kamoli ho n’o le monate ho utloahala lekhele, u utloa ebile hore ke la tlaase koana Bokaoteng. Ba ne ba bua, ba bina ba re o li etsa a li emela. ntle le haeba se re lebetse re le Basotho! Hona tjena ntate Kamoli o hokae, matona aka a Khabane le uena ntate Tau? Ke hobane bona baeta pele ba polotiki e ile ea eba karolo e’ngoe e butsoelang, e rotetsang! O ho kae hona joale tjee ntate Kamoli?
Hona joale tjena ke re e kenyelletsang nalane e teng ke ea hore karolo ea batho ba polotiki – o hokae hona joale ntate Metsing? O hokae? Hoo re ho tsebang ka eena ke hore ke motho a ka tutang metsi a Mohokare ka sefuba!
Litaba tsena re se li nke hanyenyane hobane ke re moo ho nepahetseng ‘na ke lumela ho lentsoe kapa polelo e reng ho be le loyal opposition, ’na ne nka lumela hobane ke bona eka ha ho nepahetse ho kaba hoa kenyelletsoa batho ba bohanyetsi kahar’a council e joalo eka tséhetsang Motlotlehi.
Tona kholo e tlaba hlooho ea ‘muso, feela ho tsebahale hore litaba tsena tsohle ha li etsahala kapa mafapha ‘ohle kaofela a tla ikarabella ho Motlotlehi, eo ke nkang hore ha ho nepahetse Motlotlehi ha ho thoe o na le litaba ebe o tla botsa hore na mona ho etsahala joang, hobane ho na le batho ba tla mo eletsa. Hore na ke batho ba opposition ba tla eletsa Motlotlehi kannete eohle.
Ho bua halelele ha se hobane feela ke re motho lilemong tseo ke li phetseng mona ke le Mosotho lintho tsena tse teng hona joale ha hona motho a ka iphaphanyang tsona – hore na ke mang letsatsing le leng, ese ntate Matekane – ekaba ngoana motho a tla ba t’soere selepe a tla ba ratha feela, ho tla tsoa na ho tla shoa bana ba bo mang.
Hona tjena ha hona motho a ka ba a iphapanya, ntate VicePresident hore ka hare ho litsi tsa t’sireletso sesole se shejoe betere ho feta litsi tsohle tsa t’sireletso. Sesole ha u se shebile feela u tla bona le kaparo ea sona e le betere ho feta sepolesa le tsena tse ling. Ke re le taba ea lijo nakong ea lunch masole a fuoa lijo, ntate Ramoeletsi, feela ha u ka bua ka sepolesa ha ke hopole hore na le bona moo ba fuoa lijo. ‘Me ke re taba eno feela eona ka bo-eona e arola litsi tsa t’sireletso!
Ke re, a-e, Ntate, ke ne ke mpa ke re ke behe hakaalo feela ke re mosha ha o fula oa qamaka, ha o noa metsi oa lelala.
Ke kopa ke fe ntate Tau potso.
Kea leboha.
HON.SENATOR.L.TAU: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, ke ne ke re Morena oa Likhoele Setho se Khabane se ntse se bua hantle, empa ke utloa eka mohlomong a ka hla kopa hantle, a ba a qotsa litemana tseo a ntseng a bua ka tsona, kaha ke ntse ke sheba mona, ‘me e kanna eaba t’soenyeho ea hae e temaneng ea 148(2) moo e buang ka National Security Council, haeba kea nepa, o tla ntemosa – moo e buang ka the chairmanship kapa the Chairperson of the National Security Council hore e tla ba Tona kholo?
Ke ne ke utloa eka t’soenyeho ea hae e re, e-e, ehlile e khutlele morao e lokela ebe Motlotlehi? Joale ke re a ka e hlakise hantle e le hore litsebe tsa ka mohlomong le tsa Litho tse Khabane li se ke tsa eba.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON.SENATOR. L.L SEEISO: Mohlomphehi, ha re shebe tabeng ea lihlomathiso. Hakere ke eona eo e leng taba? Leha ho ka thoe na ha ho s’o kenoe feela ke re sehlomathiso ke sena mona se re:
‘Clause 23, sub-clause149F (1) line 3 after the last “the” delete the following words ‘’National Security Council” wherever it appears in this sub-clause and substitude with the following words “Prime Minister”…
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka, section 23 ke hona re tlang ho eona u tla etsa debate taba ha u fihla ho eona! Ha re kene ho 20 ho ea ho 22 hona tjena.
HON.SENATOR.L.L. SEEISO: Empa, Ntate, ke re lintho tsena ka bo-tsona ha li tl’o tla arohana! Ke re ha ho buua ka 149 kapa eng ke hore ke ntho e le ‘ngoe, Ntate Tau; li ke ke tsa arohana!
Ke hore ho teng ka kutloisiso ea ka ea molao ke hore ha ho buua ka litaba tsena hothoe li tlose Motlotlehimatleng ano a joalo. Ke ka mokhoa oo ke utloisisang litaba kateng.
Ke kopa ke kokobele.
Kea leboha.
HON.SENATOR.S.K.MASUPHA: Mohlomphehi, kea leboha esale ke ntse ke bua ho tloha qalong leha ke ntse ke le pelo e bohloko hakaalo-kaalo, empa ke shebahala ke thapile hore litaba li tsamaee ka mokhoa o nepahetseng. Ha litaba li fihla mona National Security Services ke hona moo ke senyehang teng, ke re ho hang, nka ts’ehetsa Tona-kholo ka ntho tsohle kaofela, tsohle tse bang mohlomong nka bona ho hlokahala a li etse, empa h’a fihla ho Motlotlehi oa ka ‘NO’. Mono teng, kea senyeha kea hana Mohlomphehi.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Hon Senator Motsamai.
HON.SENATOR. S. MOTSAMAI: Ke ema ka Ntlha ea tsamaiso Molula-setulo, I think, with respect to the Standing Order Number37 e reng Litho li ka bua holim’a taba e Tafoleng, ke ne nka kopa ka tataiso ea hao Molula-setulo, hore u tataise Litho tse Khabane hore na ke li-Clause li fe tse ba bang ba nang le maikutlo holim’a tsona. Ke hore kea utloa ho ea koana le ho ea koana fela haeba bana le Amendment …Molula-setulo nke ke be ka ema le Morena a ema, h’a lule fatse.
Kea leboha.
Joale ke ne ke re ka ‘nete ba tataisoe ba ee Temaneng ena joale Temaneng ena, moo ho ngotsoeng ena e be re tseba hore batho ba na ba lokise, bana ba ntseng ba re lokisetsa mane likoantsanyane, ba tsebe ho utloa moelelo oa taba e teng.
Kannete joale ha re nka re etsa tjena, letoto le re tl’o sitoa ho le etsa manage, athe empa ha ba tseba ba re re re ee ho 148 tabeng ea ‘Counsel’, ‘Chairmanship’ e isoe ho His Majesty. Ha ke re ua bona re tseba ho etsa debate holim’a ntho eo re e ts’oereng, joale kannete ha re ea koana, ache e tla re imela kannete.
MR. CHAIRPERSON. O nepile haholo Hon Senator Motsamai, hantle-ntle re ts’oanela hore Litho tse Khabane re etse focus holim’a Clause 22, joale le eona Clause 22 eo ke kopa ke le hlokomelise hore ena le amendment, ha re e-s’o ka re ea Amendment re sa ntsane re etsa debate Clause 22 as is. Ke hona Molula-setulo oa Legislation Committee a tl’o tla a teka Amendment ea Clause 22 eo lona le le Litho le lumellaneng ka eona, ho re re batla Amendment e le tjena. Hona tjena re etsa discuss kapa re etsa debate Clause 22 as it is.
HON.SENATOR.S.K.MASUPHA: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi, ke leboha le tataiso ena, eo ke e fuoang ‘me le ‘na ke le Setho ka har’a Ntlo ena, kena le maikutlo. Moo litaba li senyehang teng nke be ka lumela, e n’e bile eka eona Clause 22 ha re hle, re e fouteleng ke utloa eka ekare e ea hole hobane Litemana tsena lia nyallana, li bua ka National Security joale re lumela qalong mona e tl’e re ha Sehlomathiso se fihla mane, e be re ile ra hlohonolofatsa ntho eno. Ha ke batle le ho e hlohonolofatsa, ke re hohang, ke hore Temana eno ha e tlohelloe e nts’e le ka tsela ena, ha e hloke sehlomathiso. Haeba re lokela re tsamaee ka mokhoa o nepahetseng, ha re fouteng.
Kea leboha.
HON.SENATOR.S.MOTSAMAI: Mohlomphehi Molula-setulo, ne ke kopa u re tataise ka Sehlomathiso Ntate, Ntate Molula-setulo kea utloa hore re kene kae, fela ke ne ke utloa eka Clause 22 eka ba hantle hore haeba eka tseba ho etsa capture Discussion ena e teng ebe e tle, e ke e shebeloe bocha empa he, e ke tla ema mona ke bua ka tsena tse teng, ele hore haeba e lokisoa, ke bona eka Morena oa ka oa Likhoele, o nts’a leka ho e sheba 48 mona ele hore a tl’a tsebe ho kena ho eona.
Clause 22.
HON.MIN.R.RAMOELETSI: Ke ema mona ke hlaisa Sehlomathiso ho Clause 22 Sub-clause 145(1) (c) after the word ‘Security’ delete the word ‘Agencies’ whenever it appears in the Bill and substitute with the word ‘Institution’.
Tabeng ena Ntate Molula-setulo le Litho tse Khabane, e ile ba preference ea litho tsa Ts’ireletso hore ho tlosoe lentsoe li ‘Agency’ ho kengoe lentsoe ‘’Institutions’’. Ke eme hape-hape, ke etse tlhahiso ea Sehlomathiso in the same Clause 22.
Sub-clause 145(1) ‘(c)’ after the word ‘National’ delete the word ‘Security’ and substitute with the word ‘Intelligence’.
Mona ke mane moo lebitso leo re neng re le tloaetse la ‘National Security Services’ ‘me ba fihla ba re re tlose mohatlana ‘services’ ho kenngoe lentsoe ‘Intelligence’, ‘me ebe in the Clause 22 again .
Sub-clause 145 delete Sub-section (3) and renumber sequentially.
‘Me re ee hape ka Sehlomathiso in the same Clause 22.
Sub-clause 146(1) (a) line 2 after the word ‘Subject’ delete the word ‘democratic’ and substitute with the word ‘civilian’.
Ke mane moo ba neng ba bua ka hore ho buoe, ka tlas’a ‘civilian control’ ‘me ha ho na le ntho e o fetolang hakaalo-kaalo, e n’e le taba ea hore fela re se ke ra re ‘democratic control’e be in the same Clause 22
Sub-clause 146 ‘(c)’ line 2 after the word ‘Gender’ delete the following words ‘sensitive and’.
Taba eno fela ke hore e ntse e nka moelelo o utloahalang ha re e siile mono tabeng ea lentsoe’’gender’’
Re lebe Clause 22
Sub-clause143(3) (b) delete the word ‘’not’’. Substitute with the word ‘’to’’.
Ke bona eka ke eona e neng re sa e etsa Mohlomphehi ka mono, ne mpa re itse ho tlosoe ‘not’ joale athe, ne re ka etsa joalo haeba ke e ts’oere hantle Mohlomphehi.
In Clause 22, Sub-clause 147(1)line 3 after ‘full stop(.)’ insert the following words ‘the Policy shall’.
Ke ka tsela eo e neng e batluoe ka eona, I move for these Clauses Mohlomphehi.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke teka taba Litho tse Khabane, hore Clause 22 e hlomathisitsoeng, e eme ele Karolo ea Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao ‘me Litho li ka bua, Morena oaka oa Thaba.
HON.SENATOR.K.L.K.THEKO: Mohlomphehi hantle-ntle ka tsamaiso ea molao, ha u tsoa from National Assembly, u tla into the Senate, ha ho letho le sitisang hore Ntlo ea Senate e etse e ana Amendment. From the Contexts, e hlahang from the National Assemby, that is to say Section 22 (b) ka tsela ena eo Marena a ka, a e batlang kateng hore e tle e tsebe ho lokiseha. Eleng ho re nothing binds us hore re nke tsela eo ba e ratang ho bua ka eona hona joale, leha re e-s’o kene tabeng, tabeng ena ea hore ‘King’ or ‘Head of Government’, eleng ho re he e re fa latitude, time and the chance ea hore re ka etsa amend, ra khutlisetsa that status, seo e neng e ntse ele original contexts. Ele hore re re: ‘ae, the Head or the Chairperson in the Counsel will remain as it was initially, construed as King, ho tlanne ho be joalo.
Eleng ho re ho omana hona joale tjee, le omanya ntho e teng e entsoeng ke National Assembly eseng Ntlo ea Senate. Joale e le etsa le bonahale hore ha le utloisisi hore na, ho nts’o ho etsahal’ang, ‘me e re etsa hore eke re hlaha re sa ikutloe na re ntse re ets’ang. Let us prepare, re ka bua le batho ba OPC(OFFICE OF PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL) ho re re lokise taba ena hore e tle ka mona, that Clause e lokisoe ka tsela eo rona re le Ntlo ea Senate, re batlang hore ebe kateng. Ha ke rate ho re e tl’e ke tlhalohano ea ntlhajana feela mona teng, re ntse re iteripa le ho ithaea lirethe, ha ntse re bua ka tsela ena e ntseng re bua ka eona .
There is nothing that can force us hore re nke taba ena, ka mokhoa oo National Assembly e o batlang kateng, we can of course amend at this Stage hore e ngolehe ka tsela eo, ebe re ea isa ho bona hore rona re e batla ele tjena, eseng ka tsela eno. What is the purpose? It is the purpose of the Succesion, e leng neheletsano ea Matlo ana, a Mabeli hore na neheletsano, e sebetse joang. Ere ke fe Morena oa ka potso.
HON.SENATOR.M.M. MOSHOESHOE: Mohlomphehi Molula-setulo. Ke ne ke botsa Morena oa ka oa Thaba, ho re ha re ntse re etsa tjena, a bua tjena hore ‘na le eena re le Komiti ea Legislation re se re fetile Stage seo, re se re bile ra etsa Report ke ena re e ts’oere, ‘me re ile ra fihla on that stage eaba Molula-Setulo o bala Report ka mona, eaba Litho tse Khabane, e leng Ntlo, lia e ananela Report as it is.
Joale hona tje ho tl’o etsahala joang?
Nts’ireletse, Molula-Setulo, hle! Ke kopa ts’ireletso!
Potso ea ka kea kholoa hore e hlakile.
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: ‘Nete ke hore ho ka ba joalo, empa joalokaha re ntse re etsa correct litaba tse ling tse ileng tsa ba kapele ho rona, re se re ntse re le ka mona, Morena oa ka, it does not bind us hore re tlose taba eo re ke keng ra e tlosa ha re etsa suggestion, leha re ntse re bona hore e ka ‘na ea etsoa reject ke National Assembly, because e se ntse e fetile.
Joale empa ka rona, ka influence ea rona we can say we would like it to be Amended this way now.
Ke ka mokhoa oo ke e behang kateng, Morena oa ka.
HON. SENATOR M. C. MAKHAOLA: Mohlomphehi, ha re keng re beng honest!
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Hlalosa Ntlha ea Tsamaiso e robehileng, Mohlomphehi!
HON. SENATOR M. C. MAKHAOLA: What happened to the Tenth Amendment when it left the Committee? …
CHAIRPERSON: E re ke u arabe haeba ke eona Ntlha ea hau ea Tsamaiso eno.
HON. SENATOR M. C. MAKHAOLA: …ho ne ho loketse hore e be ho ile hoa etsahala’ng kamorao hore the Tenth Amendment e ile ea tsoa kahare ho Komiti? Why does it come back now ka boemo boo e leng ho bona? E qobella ho fosisa Litho hore li re li ananela hore Sets’oantso see se fete? Kapa whatever they said, it was wrong?
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Lula fats’e, hee, ke u arabe hore na ho etsahetse’ng!
Ho etsahetseng ke hore Tenth Amendment ha e fihla ka mona e ile ea etsoa refer to the Legislation Committee, eaba Komiti e il’o e sebetsa. Ha Komiti e qeta ho e sebetsa e ile ea bopa Tlaleho ea fihla ea e teka kahare ho Ntlo ka mona, eaba Litho tse Khabane tsa Ntlo li e etsa debate, eaba li ananela Tlaleho eno ea Komiti ka tsela eo e leng ka eona. Ke ka hona re fetetseng mona moo re leng hona teng.
HON. SENATOR L. L. SEEISO: Ae, Ntate, mona ha hona ntoa! Ho teng ke sa ntsane ke pheta ke re batho ha ba ts’oane ka maikutlo, ‘me ke re ‘na eo ke e rapelang ke ea hore ha re theoleng maikutlo.
Haeba ho hlokahala ho etsoe Sehlomathiso – lintle tsohle re tle re nke e le tsa Ntlo ena. Kea kopa, haholo-holo 148(f) re itjoetse ka hore hohang eona e hle e tsoe, with due respect. Che, keletso e nepahetse ho motho ea e ratang. Kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR S. B. SEEISO: Ntate Molula-Setulo! Kea kholoa, Ntate, tabeng ena ha u bona eka li ntse li pota-pota ‘nqa e le ‘ngoe li hana ho ea naheng – kapa I think we are all fully aware that there is a vexing issue. Ho na le taba e kholo – Morena oa Thaba-Bosiu o e thetsitse le Litho tse ling li ntse li e thetsa hore the Security Architecture le haeba re e-so fihle tabeng ea Council kapa Commission, per say, but the issue of Security Structure or Architecture is a vexing issue to the extend that it has been debated even in the last Parliament, ka hore na hana ha nka thetsa taba ena – o tle o utloe, the Commander in Chief ke mang?
Ke e beha joalo ke fetela ho leoto la bobeli: the convenience eo re le batho re ratang hore we are Westminster democracy or the Parliamentary System of Westminster we have taken it the whole- soul, re e koentse e ntse e le joalo.
It is clearly written in black and white in the Convention of British Constitution or what is known as the Westminster model of the Parliament’s democracy, that the monarchy now is the King, whereas yesterday it was the Queen. The Monarchy is the commander in chief.
Taba eno politically it seems to be worrying a lot of people, empa ha u ka ua e sheba hore na the way – even the organogram ea Westminster portrays the King as one who sits as the ceremonial commander! Tona-Kholo o ntse a etsa mesebetsi ea hae, o ntse a fumana likeletso tsa hae, joalo-joalo!
Joalet the hang-over eo re nang le eona ha re bua ka nako e fetileng! I keep saying this and I will keep hitting on it, ntate Manamolela, that they give him the army too.
We have this hang-up ea hore ha ho ka hoa thoe Motlotlehi ke Commander in Chief o tl’o laola mabotho hore a tl’o lula Matsieng mane ebe a ea kae, a ea kae. Ke ne ke utloe motho e mong a cho joalo in the last Parliament. Ha re re Commander in Chief ebe Motlotlehi ha se ho bolela hore mabotho ana a il’o lula Matsieng mane… [litseho]… empa haeba ke ne ke botsa ke re na phoso e kae ha a ka lula Matsieng, hobane ke habo motho e mong le mong moo?
Empa where I am going towards ke hore Ntate Molula-Setulo ha utloa hore there is slightly a rising of temperature when we are talking about security architecture – there is a legacy e kamorao eo re e tsebang hore na hantle ha ho ntse ho thoe Bolaoli ba Sesole, leha e sa buue as openly as it was in 60s or 70s, the lingering hangover ea hore sesole ke batla ‘na ke le Tona-Kholo ea letsatsi leno ke laole Sesole without any hindrance, ke batla ho etsa appoint Commander without any hindrance, ke batla ho laola hore na Compol ke mang without any hindrance – there is that legacy eo re hlokang hore re e choatle hona joale pele re ka ea pele ka mokhoa ofeng kapa ofeng.
It is because again there is an issues of the security and security forces or services that have been a thorn in the sight ea botsitso ba naha ena. So unless we deal with this head on and talk about it…
Ke ne ke re, Ntate, ke mpa feela ke re what I am trying to put in the middle of the table is that, honestly, re ntse re ea mona moo re tla ea ho Council kapa Commission but we need to be recognising the fact that re ntse re na le hangover eno ea hore na hana Commander in Chief ke mang.
Joale ke mokhoa ona ke reng ha ho le convenient re tla re ha re shebe na Westminster na e ngotsoe eng, ha e se convenient Westminster ha re e tsebe. So, re se re le hokae hantle? Re mankhane kapa nonyana, ha re sure!
Ntate Molula-Setulo, ka boikokobetso ke ne ke rata hore ke behe hakaalo; feela ke ntse ke tl’o tla hape. Ke ntse ke tla hape, the problem is the hangover! E ntse e le taba ea hore na the security architecture har’a tse ling tse kholo hana the Commander in Chief ke mang?
HON. SENATOR P. S. MATHEALIRA: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo oa Komiti.
Ntlha ea Tsamaiso eo ke emang ka eona ke hore (ke re kea ikokobetsa, hle, Molula-Setulo) ke kopa re etse adjourn joaloka maobane, joalokaha mane ho ile hoa etsoa Amendment mane moo ho neng ho buua ka National Assembly, re tle re fe Litho monyetla oa hore li il’o etsa Amendment e tle e tsebe ho kena.
Ke ‘nete process re se re e fetile, empa kaha re ile ra etsa maobane, ra e fosa, ha re ‘neng re e foseng re ee pele re sa utloisaneng bohloko.
Kea ikokobetsa, Mohlomphehi.
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka oa Peka, lehoja ho na le kae-kae moo ke utloang eka re ea fapana ka maikutlo, feela u buile taba eo ke tl’o tla ke e etsa.
Ke shebile nako hore e se ntse e le nako ea lijo joale ke ne ke se ntse ke entse nako ea lijo. Ke ho re re tl’o tla re khutlela ka Ntlong kamor’a tinare…
(House resumed at 12:59 p.m.)
IN THE HOUSE
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke shebile taba ea nako joale kea bona hore e se e le nako ea lijo, ke utloile hore le tsona li se li le ready.
Ke tl’o kopa hore re nke monyetla ona oa ho tloha hona joale tjena ho fihlella ka 14:30 p.m. re o sebelise sebakeng sa lintho tse peli: ea pele, e be hore re il’o ja. Ea bobeli, ke hore re il’o lokisa Temana ena eo re sa lumellaneng ka eona e tle e se e lokile ka koano, hobane ha e s’o ka e etsetsoa qeto.
House suspended until 14:30 p.m.
MABOPE NTSIKE 05/06/2025 14:30-14:43PHOOKO
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Rea le amohela Litho tse Khabane, kamorao ho phomolo ea lijo tsa mots’eare.
Re ile ra phomotsa Ntlo re ntse re le ka Komiting, ‘me re tl’o tla re khutlela ka teng hore re qetele mosebetsi oane oa Komiti.
Kea leboha.
The House resolved itself into a Committee
(In the Committee)
MR CHAIRPERSON: Order! Litho tse Khabane, Order!
Ke ne ke re ha re arohana mona, Litho tse Khabane, ho ne ho il’o shejoa Clause 22. Re bone hore ba e shebile, empa joale re fumana hore ha e na ho fella mono Clause 22 feela; e boetse e tl’o tla e qopetsa ka Clause 23.
Joale ha Bahlanka ba ntse ba lokisa Lihlomathiso tseo, re ne re kopa hore re mpe re tsoele pele ka Clause 25. Kea kholoa etlare ha re qeta ba tla be ba qetile re tsebe ho khutlela ho Clause 22 le 23.
Clause 25 ena eo re tl’o sebetsana le eona is on Page 40 ka har’a copy tseno tsa lona, Litho tse Khabane.
Re tla kopa hore Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane a tla re tataise ka eona Clause 25 eno.
HON.R. RAMOELETSI (MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE): Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo le lona Bahlomphehi, Clause 25 ke mane moo re reng ke insertion e ncha ea 153 A e buang ka International Law Conventions and Treaties. Re ne re se re ile ra bua ka eona maobane ha re hlalosa kamoo e lokelang ho sebetsa kateng. Joale empa ho ile hoa elelloeha hore ho na le moo re lokelang re lokise teng, ‘me e tla hloka hore re kenye Amendment e ncha.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi.
Question that Clause 25 stand part of the Bill proposed.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, in the absence ea matsoho re ne re kopa hore u tl’o re tataise ka Sehlomathiso se secha.
HON. R. RAMAOELETSI (MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE): Mohlomphehi Molula Setulo, ke ema mona ke hlahisa hore ho Clause 25, Sub clause 153A 2C line 2 kamorao ho full stop, insert a full stop after word, ‘Parliament’, ‘me ebe re hlakola sohle se neng se hlaha ka mono.
E tla baleha ka mokhoa ona… ehlile e tla baleha tjena! oh!
Oh? Re tlosa mantsoe ana a latelang m- kapa tsena tse latelang:
”where the resolution of the 2 Houses of the Parliament differ, the resolution of National Assembly shall prevail.”
Ke eona eo re e tlosang, ‘me e tla baleha tjena, ”…obtained approval by a resolution of both Houses of Parliament” ebe re etsa full stop hona mono.
Kea leboha, Bahlomphehi.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane.
Question that Clause 25 stand part of the Bill as Amended proposed
HON.SENATOR.L.L. SEEISO:Mohlomphehi taba ena e qetang ho behoa ke Letona le Khabane e theotse maikutlo ao e ka bang re ne re na le ona, ‘me rea leboha ba bang.
[Liatla!]
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Order, Litho tse Khabane!
Question that Clause 25 as Amended stand part of the Bill Put and Agreed to
Litho tse Khabane, ke ne ke re ho bonahala team ea bo rona kapa moifo oa rona o ntse o lokisa Clauses tsane tse ncha tseo re kopileng hore li lokisoe,’me ha ba es’o ka ba qeta.
Re ne re kopa hore re phomotse Ntlo 20 minutes feela hore ba qetele, re tle re boele re khutle kamor’a 20 minutes, re tl’o tla re tsoela pele.
CHAIRPERSON: Ke ne ke re ho bonahala moifo oa rona o ntseng o lokisa li-Clause tsane tse ncha tseo re kopileng hore li lokisoe, ho bonahala ba e-s’o qete, kahoo re ne re kopa hore re phomotse Ntlo 20 minutes hore ba qetele re tle re boele re khutle ka mor’a 20 minutes re tl’o tsoela-pele.
THE HOUSE WAS SUSPENDED FROM 14:56 P.M.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Ntate Molula Setulo oa Komiti, u n’u nts’u le on floor, Ntate, ha ke tsebe haeba u ka tseba hore u re tataise re qetele taba eno ea lihlomathiso tsa 22.
CHAIRPERSON: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo.
Litho tse Khabane, ke ema mona ke etsa Tlhahiso ea Amendment in Clause 22 Sub-Clause 148 2 (A) after the words “they” delete the word “Prime Minister” and substitute the word “King”.
In Clause 22 Sub-Clause 142……
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ntate Molula-Setulo, u n’u s’u qetile ena, joale ke hore re tlohelle Morena Lerotholi a tl’o qetela tsane tsa hae.
HON SENATOR L.L LEROTHOLI: Mohlomphehi oa marumo Lekena, mokholo-khothi ha ho na le ntoa!
Feela empa ke re, Ntate Chairman, ke re ‘na ke leboha moea o bileng teng ka hare ho Litho tse Khabane. Re ka fapana ka maikutlo, feela ke ratile mokhoa oo taba ena re e shebisaneng kateng, Ntate Motsamai. Ha Motho a entse hantle a n’o bolelloe hoba hangata bophelong mona re na le ho tlotla motho ha a se a shoele.
Ke leboha Litho tsohle tse Khabane tse ileng tsa ananela taba ena,’me ke kopa ke tsoele-pele, Ntate Molula-Setulo, ka hore e ‘ngoe re tle re re in Clause 22 Sub-Clause 148 2(A) after the word “they” delete the word “Prime Minister” and substitute with the word “King”.
Taba ena re e bua ka maikutlo a macha, re re re ithutile litaba tsa nako e fitileng, ‘me mona re mpa re re re hahamalla pele molemong oa hore Motlotlehi o na le Tona Kholo o tla ‘ne a sale a na le Tona-Kholo eo e leng keta-pele ea ‘Muso, ‘me haeba ho na le moo ke reng ke hopola teng ke nka hore matsoho a eena Motlotlehi ke Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo. Ka Tona-Kholo o tla b’a na le motho ea tla mo tlatsa ele Tona-Kholo, hore boemong bo tjena ba kopa Motlotlehi, ele hoba lithong tsohle ha li le ntle li phethahala nako eno eohle kaofela re re litaba tseno ke tsa Motlotlehi, ‘me re tla be re nka hoo e leng litaba tsa Basotho.
2. Eona e re in Clause 22 Sub- Clause 148 (4) after the last “the” delete the word “Prime Minister”.
Ka ho ts’oana e ntse e batla e ts’oana le eane ea pele hore ho tl’o kenngoe lentsoe “King” borarong. Re re, in Clause 22 Sub-Clause 148 (2) after paragraph (a) insert the following:
(b) ‘Prime Minister’. And renumber sequentially ka mokhoa o ts’oanang le 4!
Oh, ke 23, Ntate! Kea kholoa kamor’a tinare nyoko e tlile ka mahlong. In Clause 23 Sub-Clause….
Hothoe ha ke etsa tjena kea sisinya, and so, I so move.
Clause 22 as Amended proposed
HON SENATOR K.L.K THEKO: Mohlomphehi, ke rolela taba ena khaebana kaha ho e apesa ts’obotsi eo e e reretsoeng hase ho hobosa kapa ho nyenyefatsa, empa ke ho phahamisa, hobane hantle–ntle a King rings a King! That’s a work over batho ba hae, empa ka borumuoa ba hae bo ka sehlohlolong boo a ba fuoang ke Sechaba. E leng hore kajeno Ntate Matekane o fuoe matla ana le ts’obotsi ena ke Sechaba sa Basotho hore e tle e-be e eena lentsoe la Sechaba sa Basotho.
Empa ka holimo ho tsohle since nako ea Morena Moshoeshoe I ha esale re na le lebofe la Basotho e leng Motlotlehi Letsie la Boraro kajeno.
Ekile eaba Moshoeshoe II, ea ba Seeiso, ea e-ba ba bang ba baholo ho bona ba ileng ba ba teng. Taba e kholo ke continuity eane eo Ntate Motsamai a e ratang. Kea bona o qeta ho e fumana from dictionaries tsa hae.
O lula a bua ka eona ka nako eohle. Taba ea continuity, Mohlomphehi, ha e senye letho la lereli la matla a an incoming Prime Minister; the King will always be advised by His Prime Minister to execute every work. E leng hore Motlotlehi a ke ke a tsoha a se a re, ‘Masole, tsohang le ee ntoeng ke batla le il’o loana’! E ka ba ntho e makatsang!
Le Queen Elizabeth le Charles kajeno ba na le therisano eo ba lulang ka eona pele. Le Prime Minister ha a na le maikutlo ho nts’a mabotho o tla ea Buckingham Palace ba fihle ba qoqe taba eno.
Ka tsela e ts’oanang le mona re ntse re re ts’ebelisano-‘moho ea these two powers, e leng ea Sechaba – le ena eo e leng ea meetlo e sa leng e phela…. Ena ea meetlo e matla haholo, hobane ha le ka la sheba lintho tse ling kapa bosebeletsi bo bong boo lintho e leng lintho tse mpe haholo, like parting kapa ho ts’oarela batho ha ke bua ka Sesotho kapa eng, e fuoa Motlotlehi, empa tse kotsi li ntse li jaroa ke Tona Kholo.
Joale empa mona re re the King should be the person who would reign supreme on behalf of the Nation; e leng hore taba eno e se e se na a political flavour, empa e-be le National Flavour.
HON SENATOR M.M MOSHOESHOE: Ntate Molula-Setulo, ‘na ha ke na le litaba tse ngata ke ne mpa ke ema ho thoholetsa Setho se Khabane mong’a Amendment ena le ho akhela mantsoe a mabeli hore kannete ruri ka uena, Molula-Setulo, kamehla le matsatsi e ntse e le hantle hore u le Setulo sa Ntlo – che! E seng sena sa Komiti! Re ke re il’o tataisa Litho hore na ho tsamaisa Bill ba na le matla afeng ntle le Litho tsa Komiti ea Legislation.
Legislation Bill e fihlela ho rona Komiting mane, me rona re na le matla a ho kenya li-amendment tsa rona re tsitse le stake holders, re nyakurele, re be re etse tsohle, re be re etse submit a written report re tl’o e fa Ntlo.
Empa Litho tseo e seng members tsa Komiti eo li tlameha hore li etsoe train hore na ke stage sefeng moo bona ba ka etsang submit li-amendment tsa bona kaha ba na le tokelo e joalo, fully 100% ,e le motho ka bomong kapa e le a group!
So, ha ke rate ha e hlaha eka re loants’ana le Litho tsa Komiti! No! ha re loants’ane re ne re re feela there is a certain stage at which u tlamehang ho etsa submit amendment ea hau eo re neng re tla e amohela u fihle u e buelle.
U tlameha u nke full ownership on that amendment. Ke ena e ea hlaha, e na le mong’a eona hona joale, e ngotsoe hantle, ‘me oa e buelella, re ea e kenya ke ena; e tla kena e fete ha ho na mohla re tla e hana.
So, ha ba li tlisa ka nako ke ee ke bone le hona tjena tjena ha li-Bill li fihla pherekano eba teng hona mona, ‘me joale ho ‘na e se e le ka makhetlo a mangata hoo le ka mane ka nakong eo re neng re etsa Inheritance the same thing happened! E se eka rea ba loants’a joale ha u se u ema u ba etsa call to order u le a member of the committee; u hlaha e se eka u loants’ana le bona!
It is not like that, re ee be re etsa follow procedure and e tlameha ebe joalo. Ba tsebe hore ba na le tokelo le matla a hore as individual ba etse submit li-amendment.
I thank you.
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha, Honourable Senator Moshoeshoe.
Litho tse Khabane, ke ts’oenyehile ke bona ho ntse hoba lisene and ha le ka ba sieo le tsebe hore re tl’o tla re ba le bothata bo boholo, hobane ho na le litemana tse hlokang 2/3 majority kahar’a Sets’oantso sa Molao mona, tse hlokang hore li tl’o tla li fetisoa boteng ba lona. Joale ha le ntse le ba sieo re tla ba le bothata hoo le Ntlo ena re tla lokela ho e koala. Re tla tlameha hore re tleng bekeng e tlang re tl’o tla re ka Bill ena.
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo. ke ne ke batla ho kenella tabeng ena eo ‘M’e ‘Makholu a e behileng hantle. Maoba mona kapa maobeng ke ile ka hla ka bua eona taba ena ea hore na ha report e tsoa komiting hang hang ho se ho thoe e kena ka Ntlong. E leng hore taba ena ea ho fa Marena a haeso kapa Litho monyetla oa hore ba kenye litaba tsa bona kahar’a Bill, ba ithute eona, ha ba e fuoe, ‘me e khutlela mane moo ke reng na Molao o bohlokoa tjena re o sobokella feela hore o fete?
Re ne re tlameha hore ebe re o sebelitse hantle. Na re fane ka hore taba ekang ee re e sebetse? Haholo ha re re re lokisetsa bacha.
Le haeba re lofa, Ntate oa ka, eona e ntse e le joalo…
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, ere re utloe taba ea… –[lerata]
Morena oa Melele, tsoelapele.
HON. SENATOR M. C. MAKHAOLA: Mohlomphehi, lela le lapileng ha le na tsebe, empa ha u le tlatsa ka tsepo lea utloa, ‘me rea leboha ha lela le lapileng le utloile; mohoo ke oa sechaba sa Basotho.
Rea leboha.
HON. SENATOR S. NKUEBE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Ke ts’ehetsa litaba tsena tseo Bahlomphehi ba li buileng haholo mabapi le Amendment ena e qetang ho hlaha ka pel’a rona. Feela taba eo ke neng ke na le eona ke hore na mona 149F mona moo ho buang ka deployment of Lesotho Defence Force, na ebe …
HON. CHAIRPERSON: Ae, Mohlomphehi, re ntse re le on Clause 22, joale uena u se u le Clause 23!
Question put and agreed to
Clause 22: As amended agreed to and ordered to stand part of the Bill
Clause 23
HON. R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo le lona Litho tse Khabane.
Ke se ke ile ka shapa pere, empa ho bonahala ke tlameha ke khutlele morao.
Ke kopa ke bonts’e hore Clause 23 ke Sehlomathiso se secha se kenang, ‘me se tla tloha ka morao ho Temane ena ea 149. E leng hore re tla tloha 149A ho ea fihla ho 149R, ‘me 149A e bua ka National Security Commission, ‘me e ea bonts’a hore na e tla boptjoa joang, e tla ikarabella kae ka Gazette.
Re fetele ho 149B e buang ka mesebetsi ea Commission, eona eo ke seng ke buile ka eona. 149C e bua ka appointment of Heads and Deputies of National Security Agencies.
149D e bua ka Lesotho Defence Force, ‘me e bua ka mesebetsi. E bonts’a hore mesebetsi ea Lesotho Defence Force e tla hlaha kahar’a an Act of Parliament ka morao hore Molao ona o fete.
149F ke deployment of the Lesotho Defence Force, ho re the power to deploy the Lesotho Defence Force, except for routine military operations, shall be vested in the King, acting on the advice of the National Security Council.
Ke kopa ke e fete e ea utloahala, beng ba ka.
149G e bua ka Lesotho Mounted Police Service, ‘me le mesebetsi ea eona e tla hlaha kahar’a an Act of Parliament.
Re fetele pele ho National Security Service, e leng 149 I. le eona e ea bonts’a hore mesebetsi ea eona e tla thehoa ka hare ho Act of Parliament.
Re tsoelepele re bue ka Lesotho Correctional Services eo e leng 149 K, ‘me le eona ka mokhoa o ts’oanang mesebetsi oa eona e tla hlaha kahar’a Act of Parliament.
149M e bonts’a hore ho tla ba le establishement and functions of Independent Security Sector, Oversight, Inspectorate and Complaints Authority, moo joale re tlaba le this oversight body e tla tseba hore e li okamele li le tharo (3) joalo ho mamela mathata a kabang teng a hlahang a amana le sechaba ts’ebetsong ea bona.
149N ke Composition and Appointment ea eona Authority eno.
149 O e buang ka mesebetsi hore the functions of the Authority shall be provided for by an Act of Parliament.
149P e bua ka bophatlalatsi, ‘me ke mane moo ke bonts’ang hore bophatlalatsi ba rona ka hare ho naha ke ntho ea bohlokoa haholo e lokelang ho fumants’oa tataiso ea molao, e be e fumane ts’ireletso ea molao, hore ba tle ba sebetse ba ipapisitse le molao ka linako tsohle, hobane joale maleme a batho ha ba bua on radio kae kapa kae ba ka chesa naha kapa ba ka e tima, ‘me khotso ea ba teng kapa ea ba sieo.
149Q e bua ka Media Council of Lesotho.
149R e buang ka Settlement of Disputes in the Media Sector, ‘me dispute ena ho boleloa hore ho tla ba le Media Ombudsman a tla tseba hore a mamele moo ebang likhang li tla ba teng ho li rarolla.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, I so move.
Question proposed
HON. SENATOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, kea leboha.
Ke ne ke re re ke re shebisane le Letona le Khabane haeba ke utloile ha a bala Clause 23 hantle. U hlalosa ka nepo hore the function of the deployment is done by the King, empa ka nq’ane ho ne ho entsoe e ka e tlaba the Prime Minister, pele Morena ka 22 a etsa an amendment. What a confusion!
Joale empa e ea bonts’a hore the intention on understanding issue ea deployment le hore ho etsa suction an army outside the country le ho etsa joalo concurrence of the King will be required. Ka hona re batla ho etsa applaud taba ena, feela ke ema ka hore hoa bonahala, hee, Morena oa Liphakoe o ne a batla ho bua ka eona, kaha kea kholoa o ne a e makalla ts’obotsi ena ea hore re qeta ho etsa amend moo ho neng ho thoe Clause 22 it will be Prime Minister.
Joale re qeta ho etsa amendment re beha the King e se e le eena the incumbent. Down the line on Clause 23 re fumana ho ne ho ntse ho lumeloa hore Motlotlehi e tlaba eena the deplorer. The function of deployer ea mabotho a naha ha a ea kantle ho naha. Mona it is a good deformity ho Clause 22 le Clause 23 hore li ts’oane -‘me motho eohobane ke re the workmanship in between the King and Prime Minister need to be seen as amicable as possible ka linako tsohle, hore Motlotlehi letsoho leno la hae ha le re, “Ntate, ha re lebe koana” – na ebe hona le moo a kareng oa hana na?” Na ho ee ho etsahale a hane na?
ke eona ntho eo re neng re re it is only ceremonial. Morena Mantata o qeta ho e bua this morning hore taba eo ea matla a Motlotlehi Khosi ha se ho bolela hore ke eena eo ebang Commander, a ‘ne a khotse batho bano. Ba tla ‘ne ba khotsoe ke masole hore na ba etse turn left or right. Ka hona re re re leboha taba ena, hobane joale e fihla e kopana hantle e tsamaea joaloka korosetina feela ha u e hula u e kopanya.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
[liatla]
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Joaloka korosetina feela ha u e hula, u e kopanya.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
(LIATLA)
CHAIRPERSON: Re tla ema hanyane ele hore Morena Tholo a thusoe mane ho lokisa taba ena, hobane joale re ts’oanela ho tla ho ena hona tjena, Litho tse Khabane.
Ak’u re tataise, Morena.
HON. SENATOR L.L. SEEISO: Ke kopa ke lebohe, Ntate Molula-Setulo, ka hore ha re fihla mona Temaneng ena ea Bone, e tle e balehe tjena:
In Clause 23 sub-clause 149 (1) (a) line 4 after the word “end” ebe re etsa delete, re hlakola the word “hore” e tle be setho se le seng. Eleng ho re ehlile re hlakola taba ea Setho se le seng, re kenya Litho tse peli ka hare ho taba ena, ‘me ke qetellong ke mono moo ehlile e hlaisang e re: ‘2 members from the Senate, one of whom shall be the Principal Chief.’Ke kopa ke kokobele.
Clause 23 as amended, proposed.
HON.SENATOR S. NKUEBE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo. Kannete ‘na taba ea ka e ne le ho 149F. Che! Mohlomong ekaba ke potso kapa ekaba eng! Ke bona ho ea ka ‘na, che, ha ke se ke bona, ke bona ese ele unnecessary taba ena ea 149F.
Kea leboha.
Kea bona hore ho Act ha ke bala litaba tsa clause 22 ka Amendment ea eona e qetang ho etsoa ke Morena oa ka, Morena oa Likhoele, joale ha ke se ke sheba 149F Ke bona kannete joale e se e le contradictory, hobane ke utloisisa ekare ho Motlotlehi Keletso e tlameha hore e hlahe ho ntho – hana ho thoe k’eng ? Security Council! Haholo-holo ho 2 ea teng mona moo ho se hothoe, e, ke bona e baka contradiction e ‘nyane mono, Mohlomphehi.
Ena e qetang ho lokisoa, Mohlomphehi, mona moo ho thoeng – moo ho bonts’oang hothoe ‘ee’, ho tloha ho 22, ho Clause 22 moo ho thoeng re etsa ‘replace’ moo ho thoeng Prime Minister e be re kenya King, e tlaba ena the head of the chairmanship ea Security Council. Joale ke ne ke bona ho le unnecessary hore ebe ho tla thoe Tona-Kholo ke eena ea tla mo eletsa ho etsa deploy mabotho a Naha, Mohlomphehi.
Ke bona mona moo ho thoeng, ‘The Prime Minister shall, within 14 days…’
Ke kopa u mphe nakonyana, Mohlomphehi, ke lokise mona.
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: Ke ne ke nahanne, Ntate Molula-Setulo, ka uena, utla re re hle re li follele kaofela tsena tsa 23. So, Litho nako eo li qoqang li tla be li se li qoqa ka tsona kaofela. Empa hee, kaha u s’u mphile, ke ne ke re ke ema mona, Mohlomphehi, ho sisinya Lihlomathiso tse latelang:
Clause23sub-section 149A (1) Line 3 after the word ‘Gazette’, insert the following words “for their appointment and removal of security chiefs”
Empa e le Sehlomathiso se amanang le taba eno.
In Clause 23 sub- clause 149C (5) line 1 after the word “a” delete the word ‘head’ and substitute with the word “member.”
In Clause 23 sub-clause 149F (1) line 3 after ‘the last day’ delete the following words “National security council”, wherever it appears in this Sub clause and substitute with the the following words “Prime Minister”.
Ke mpa feela ke se ke sa hopole na e tla amana le eane eo re e entseng, empa hee, kea kholoa re tla e sheba hore na e ntse e ea joang.
In clause 23 sub-clause 149K (3) line 3 after the word “corrections” delete the word “who shall be answerable to the minister responsible for the correctional services”
HON. SENATOR S. NKUEBE: Okay!
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ena taba e ne e nts’oarisoa molikoalikoane. Ke ena, Mohlomphehi, ho 49 F, e 149 F. Taba ke hore Motlotlehi ke utloisisa e tla b’e le Chair ea Security Council. Joale ke utloa moo e batlang e ferekanya – ke hore na na ho necessary hore ebe Clause ee e teng, hobane ke utloisisa hore o tla b’a a le teng ka har’a Liqeto tsa National Security Council? Joale na h’a qeta ho etsa Liqeto tse joalo, e be joale o tl’a tla a nka ‘Advice’ moo e neng e le Chair teng?
Ke utloa e mbilikisa tjena, Mohlomphehi! Ke utloa eka e hloka ho lahloa.
Kea leboha.
CHAIRPERSON: Ke hore ka bokhuts’oanyane Morena oa ka o re ha a nke nakong eo e leng Chair, a nke liqeto tse tla etsoa moo eleng tseo a li fuoeng ke Council ebilee le advice ea council?
HON. SENATOR S. NKUEBE: Ke utloa ho ‘na, Mohlomphehi, eka ekare joale ke pheta-pheto ea mosebetsi joale! Hakere Motlotlehi o tl’a ba a check ea Council? Joale ke ne ke tla utloisisa ha e se joalo ka Clause ena e qetang ho etsoa amend. Ke e qetang ho ba le Amendment hona joale, hobane pele o ne a fuoa Advice ke Council, e se Setho sa eona, joale hona joale ke Setho sa eona ebile o e etsa check. Joale ha e etsa check, h’a qeta hore ba nke qeto, ba le kahar’a Council, e be o tl’o tla a tla hape, e tl’o tla e mo etsa Advise bocha? Ke utloa e le pheta-pheto e ngata feela mono.
Ebe ke utloa Clause ena e se bohlokoa hakaalo; ekare e ka nts’uoa.
Kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR L.L. SEEISO: Ke ne ke re ke kopa Ntate Morena oa ka re ke re leke ho sheba taba ena ka botebo ka hare ho Molao oa Motheo. Ho na le Karolo e buang ka State Council. Lithong tse teng ka mono, Ntate Ramoeletsi, boemeli ba NSS ha bo eo. Ke ho re ke ne ke kopa taba ena re e shebe ho kae-kae eka ho na le litaba tse ling tse morao. NSS ka bo-eona, ke nka e le eona e fepelang Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo hore litaba tse itseng, tse itseng re bona eka li kanna tsa tlela Naha ena, tsa e tlisetsa tlokotsi.
Kahoo ke kopa hore e ke e shejoe hore na taba eona eo, eo ke nkang e le teng ka har’a naha, ea motheo, feela ho ntse ho na le Lefapha le behelletsoeng ka theko, ntlheng ea State Council, e ka shejoa joang.
Kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR S. MOTSAMAI: Ntate Molula-Setulo, ke ne ke re, ka uena, u re lumelle re hule Amendment ena.
Re ne re etsa ea 13 Clause, Sub–clause 149F. Ka lebaka la hore akere re ile ra etsa Amendment eane e ‘ngoe, re hule joale, re fetele ho eane ea 149. Ke eo ka kotloho eona e ts’oanelang hore ho tlosoe, ho etsoe ‘delete’ ka mor’a lentsoe ‘corrections’, ebe re etsa ‘delete who shall be answerable to’.
Ke ka tsela eo e n’e ts’oanela e tle tsebe ho baleha hantle, re nts’e mehatlana eno e mengata eno, hobane motho, ka the command and the pretence of the Lesotho Correctional Service, Correctional service, shall, as a Service be vested in the ‘Chief of Correctional Services’, ‘me e felle hona mono, and then you delete the rest!
Eo ka kotloloho eona e tšoanelang hore ho etsoe kamorá lentsoe “Corrections” ebe re etsa delete “who shall be answerable to”. Ke ka tsela eo e tšoanelang e tle e tsebe ho baleha hantle. Re ntše mehatlana eno e mengata eno, hobane motheo ke ho re the Command and Super intend of the Lesotho Correctional Service shall be vested in the Chief of Correctional Services. E felle hona moo ebe you delete the rest.
I so Move.
CHAIPERSON: Morena oa Liphamola.
HON. SNATOR L. M. SEEISO: Kea leboha, Ntate Molula-Setulo. Kea kholoa ke tlatsa litaba tseno tsa Ntate Motsamai. Ehlile ha re huleng Amendment 13 eno, kaha ke bona e thulana le eno eo re neng re qeta ho e etsa, joale ke ne ke bona a khutlela morao mane moo ho tla thoe ke bale hape.
Kea leboha, Ntate.
CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha. Amendment ena ea 13 e hutsoe, Litho tse Khabane.
Question Put and Agreed to. Clause 23 as amended ordered to stand part of Bill.
CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha, Litho tse Khabane. Clause 23 as Amended e tla ema ele karolo ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao.
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO: Ke kopa, Ntate Molula-Setulo, haeba re qetellong…
CHAIRPERSON: Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, re kopa u k’u re tataise on Schedule Clause 29.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo.
Clause 29
Clause 29 of the Constitution is Amended by inserting the following new Schedule after Schedule 3 – ‘me Schedule 4 e tla ema tjena:
- Appointed member of Council of State
- Chief Justice
- Deputy Chief Justice
- Judge President
- Deputy Judge President
- Judge of the Supreme Court
- Judge of the High Court
- Attorney General
- Member of Parliamentary Service Commission
- Member of Judicial Service Commission
- Member of Public Service Commission
- Member of the National Security Commission
- Member of Human Rights Commission
- Member of Lesotho Anti-Corruption and Ethics Commission
- Member of Independent Electoral Commission
- Member of National Development Planning Commission
- Auditor General
- Public Protector
- Director of National Public Prosecution Authority
- Member of Security Sector Inspectorate Oversight and Complaints Authority
I so Move.
CHAIRPERSON: Rea leboha, Letona le Khabane.
Question, that Clause 29 on Schedules stand part of the Bill, proposed.
CHAIRPERSON: Morena oa ka oa Thaba.
HON. SENTOR K. L. K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, litaba tsena kapa positions tsena tseo Honourable Minister a qetang ho li beha mona are very substantive ka hore li tseba ho bopa ntho eo e ka bitsoang The National Commission, ka hore li ka tseba ho bopa Molao esita le seriti sa eona naha ka mokhoa oo se entsoeng kateng.
Ka hona ke ema feela to endorse hore the Schedule without it, is not correct or have no command at all.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
Question, that Clause 29 on Schedules stand part of the Bill, put and agreed to.
CHAIRPERSON: Litho tse Khabane, taba ena e re fihlisa pheletsong ea mosebetsi oa Komiti, ‘me re tla khutlela ka Ntlong…
(Interrupted)
HON. SENTOR L. M. SEEISO: Ke kopa pele u koala, Ntate Au, ke behe tabanyana ele ‘ngoe feela! Ha ke tsebe na ke e bitsa eng – ea lipuo. Ke aka Ntlo, ka hona ke ne ke re pele u koala… (Interrupted)
CHAIRPERSON: Ae, ha ho s’o koaloe!
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO: Ke bolela hore pele u ea ka Ntlong!
CHAIRPERSON: Ke Point of Order?
Ha re utloe Point of Order hore na re fositse hokae, Morena oa ka.
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO: Point of Order ea ka ke hore re ngotse Molao ona ka Sekhooa feela, ‘me ke ipotsa mehla ena hore na Basotho bane ba haeso ba Mokhotlong le re hana bona ba kena litabeng tsee joang? Re entse hore ebe Molaong ho na le lipuo tsane tse ‘ne (Sesotho, Sekhooa, eng le eng) ke lipuo tse official, but ha re ea fa any speciality ho Sesotho hore bohle ba tle ba tsebe ho utloa hore ho uoa kae.
‘Me ka hona kahará ntho ena eo re lekang ho e etsa e bitsoang participatory democracy, haeba ke e nepile, ke utloa re koalletse Basotho ba haeso kantle, because they cannot participate mosebetsing oo re o entseng letsatsing lena.
Kea leboha, Ntate.
CHAIRPERSON: Ua bona, Morena oa ka, u ntse u sebelisa mantsoe u re ba sitoa ho etsa participate? Ke ho re ua utloa hore le uena u ntse u ba koalla kantle? Feela hoo eleng taba ke hore Molao ona ha o le teng, ho tla ba le version ea Sesotho, e ke ke eaba version ena ea Sekhooa feela. ‘Me ha taba ena e se e fetisitsoe e tla ba le li-version tsa lipuo tsena tse fetisitsoeng ka mona kaofela.
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO: U e bone e etsahala hokae, Ntate? Inheritance Act esale e kena – ke likhoeli tse kae? Ntse re sena ea Sesotho le letsatsing lena…
CHAIRPERSON:… kopi ea Molao oa Motheo oa Sesotho e teng, Mohlomphehi…
HON. SENATOR L. M. SEEISO:… Inheritance Act ea 2024 esale e kena ho sena Molao oa Sesotho kahará eona.
The House resumed from the Committee
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Order, Litho tse Khabane!
Litho tse Khabane re phethetse mosebetsi oa ka Komiting, ‘me Setšoantšo sa rona sa Molao se khutla se na le Amendments kapa Lihlomathiso tseo le li ananetseng le ho li fetisa hona ka Komiting ka mane.
Boemong bona ha re se re fetile mothati ono re fetela mothating o hlahlamang, eleng oa palo ea boraro ea Setšoantšo sena ebile ele ea ho qetela. ‘Me re tl’o fetela mane mokhahlelong oa ho qetela oa Third Reading kapa Palo ea Boraro ea Setšoantšo sena sa Molao ebile ele ea ho qetela.
Ke kopa hore pele ke fa Mohlomphehi letona le Khabane monyetla oa hore a etse Third Reading, ke hlalose Litho tse Khabane hore ka lebaka la hore Setšoantšo sena se na le Litemana tse hlokang 2/3 Majority, re tl’o le bala ka bo mong hore re fumane that 2/3 Majority. Joale ha le ntse le ba sieo, taba eno e bolela hore re tl’o sitoa ho fetisa Setšoantšo sena sa Molao. Re tl’o sitoa le ho koala, hobane moralo ene ele hore ha re qeta ho fetisa Setšoantšo sena re phomolele Mariha. Re tla tlameha hore re tl’o khutla bekeng e tlang hore re tl’o qetela hafeela le sa etse lipalo tseno tse hlokahalang.
Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, re kopa u re tataise ka Third Reading Ntate.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi Deputy President. I rise to move that Senate proceeds to the Third Reading of the Bill forthwith.
Question that Tenth Amendment to The Constitution Bill, 2024 be read for the Third Time, put and agreed to.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Setšoantšo sena se tla baloa lekhetlo la boraro, ‘me se fete, Mohlomphehi Letona.
HON. MINISTER R. RAMOELETSI: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Deputy President le lona Bahlomphehi ba Khabane. Kannete ke ema mona ka thabo e kholo letsatsing lena ke leboha Ntlo ena ea Mahosana kamoo re sebelitseng ka mofuthu kateng hore re qetelle re fihlile mothating ona oa ho qetela oa hore Setšoantšo sena se fete.
Ke lebohe ka mokhoa o khethehileng, ‘me ke bonts’e hore Ntlo ena e Khabane re ile ra qala ka mafolo-folo a maholo hore re fihlele mona moo re teng.
Ke lebohe haholo Bahlanka ba Lekala la Law and Justice ba ileng ba sebetsa kathata hore Lihlomathiso tsena tse neng li ntse li kenngoa, li ntse li hlakoloa, ebe ha ba ea ka ba khathala matla, ba ‘na ba tsoelapele ba fana ka boeletsi bo hlokahalang ba Molao kapa eona ketsa-molao.
Bahlomphehi ba ka, mona ke nalane eo re fihlang ho eona tabeng ena ea Sehlomathiso sena sa Leshome le Motso o Mong.
Naha ea rona ea Lesotho e ne e se e fetohile sekhobo machabeng ha Mohlomphehi Tona-Kholo a ne a tsamaea a il’o kopana le bo mphato oa hae ba SADC. Re ne re lula re behoa on benches hothoe re ke re cheche. Joale letsatsing lena ka’nete re tla ba motlotlo hore le rona re tle ke ka letsatsi le leng re tle ke re fuoe Bolula-Setulo ba Lekhotla leo la SADC hore le rona re tle re ke re etelle pele linaha tseo tse 15 kaofela. Re tle re li etelle pele le rona re ke re imone monoana oa hore joale re fumane mofuthu ka hare ho linaha tseo tsa SADC.
Bahlomphehi ba ka, ha ke buile hakana ke tle ke kope hore ke lebohe. Ke lebohe bohle; le media e teng, esale e tsamaea le rona, re e lebohe.
Re lebohe le sechaba sa Basotho ka kakaretso hore ka’nete mosebetsi ona esale re o sebetsa re tla ke re bone mohlomong ha Litemana tsena li se li fitile li se li ile Melaong, re bone khotso e khutla, ‘me mesebetsi e meng ea Commissions tsena e qala ho kena ts’ebetsong hore re tle re tsebe ho fumana seo eleng sona, eleng bosebeletsi bo tsoileng matsoho,’me bobolu bo tle bo nenoe.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi oa ka.
MR CHAIRPERSON: Ke kopa ea mo tlatsang, Litho tse Khabane.
HON SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Leader of the House, hantle ntle ntho eo u tl’o e etsa ka moo ke eng? Haeka ha u batle ho etsa letho tjee?
Mohlomphehi, ua tseba ke makalletse Motaung ka mokhoa oo a iketlileng kateng! Le ka tsela eo a lutseng ka eona feela e’a bonahala hore ha a batle ho etsa letho, empa ho cho joalo ha ho re ke motho eo ke mo sokelang, ebile oa tseba le eena hore he is my favourite, but oa mphoqa!
Ke ne ke re, Mohlomphehi, ke ema ka’nete ho leboha qeto ena eo kajeno lena re thulanang le eona ka liphatla hore bosebeletsi bona bo neng bo ts’oeroe ke lintho tse ngata haholo. Re nahana hore etlare ha taba ena e qeta ho feta mona, lefats’e le tla re sheba ka ts’obotsi e ‘ngoe.
Joale empa this first batch of the Reforms, e leng 10th Amendment, will be taba e tla re isa pele ho SADC, CPA, IPU and all other International Bodies li tle li re shebe ka tsela e ‘ngoe.
Ka hona ka’nete re ema re u lebohela, Minister, ka patience eo u bileng le eona mosebetsing ona oo u o entseng o matlahali oa ho kholisa Matlo ana a Mabeli hore this is the right thing to do.
Mosebetsi oo rea o paka, Ntate Richard, hore ka’nete u o entse ka bohloeki, ka boikokobetso esitana le ka mamello e kholo. Ka hona re re, sechaba sa h’eso kapa Marena a hes’o, ha re etseng vote Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao re sefe 2/3 re fete, sechaba sa Basotho se tle se tsebe ho atleha.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
MR CHAIPERSON: Kea leboha, morena oa ka oa Thaba.
Question that the 10th Amendment Bill to the Constitution be read the Third Time Proposed
HON SENATOR L.L. SEEISO: Ke mpa ke re, Ntate, moo batho ba entseng hantle, ba entse hantle, joale empa ho na le moo re tlamehang hore re behe taba ka hore Ntlo ena e hlohonolofalitsoe ka Tafole ea Bahlanka ba re sebelelitseng…
E tla mona, Ntate Ramoeletsi, moo re buileng ka taba ea hore Matlo ana a Mabeli, Ntate Vice Prseident, a ikemele ele hore, Ntate Khoabane, re tle re tle mane moo re eeng re bue ka taba ea hore ba tle ba sale ele career service.
Bohlale boo ba bileng le bona ho tloha ha ba ntse ba qala ho fihla mona, motho ea kang Ntate Khotso ka’nete ke hopola khajana, ehlile re fumane mona esale mothonyana a monyenyana.
Ntate Tsepane re kopa re u lebohe, oa heso oa Mathebe, rea le leboha esitana le khaitseli ea ka haufinyane le ‘na mona, ho kenyeletsa Ushers le batho bohle.
Feela taba-taba ke ea hore, Ntate, ho kenyeletsa ‘M’e President, re kopa re le lebohe hobane le ile la re tataisa ka maikutlo, ‘me ra khona hore re mamele. Feela ho teng ke hore bao e ka bang ba ne ba ba le hona hore ba etseletse Ntlo ena, Ntate Motsamai, ke tle ke re one German philosopher ea bitsoang Niss o na re, “we need, in order to live, to console and evoke sympathy. They protect but they also confuse! Damaged relationships lead to loss of trust and create a world in which nobody feels comfortable. People resort to lies to save face, to mislead and to gain power. And lies are not always to do with words; you can live and lie or you can be one”
Ke hoba karolo ea Litho tse ling ka hare ho National Assembly li ile tsa lelekisa ho etsa tarnish seriti sa Ntlo ena e Khabane.
Taba ena eo batho ba neng ba ka nahana hore re ne re ka ‘na ra e nka libeke kapa nako e kae, re e qetile ka nako e nkang half ea beke.
Re tlameha hore re iphaphathe, re itebohele hore Molimo o ile a fela a kena ho rona eaba re khona ho shebisana hantle molemong oa hore re sebetse taba ena molemong oa Basotho, eseng sebakeng sa mang kapa mang.
Ena rea e lebohela, ntate Ramoeletsi, ‘me re kopa re lebohele Mohlomphehi Tona Kholo hobane e ne e le karolo e ‘ngoe eo a neng a e labalabela hore Ntlo e Khabane ea Senate e tle e sebetse taba ena.
Ka’nete ha ke behile hakana, re kopa ho u leboha, Ntate, hobane ka mokhoa o ts’oanang e ne e le uena ea neng a tataisa taba ena. U ile ua khona hore u be le mamello.
Ha ke behile hakana, Ntate Vice Prsident, rea leboha, Ntate.
HON SENATOR M.C. MAKHAOLA: Mohlomphehi, ka’nete rea leboha, Honourable Minister.
Rea leboha Mohlomphehi le Tafole ea hau le Komiti ea hau, lipaki tseno tsa Basotho. Rea leboha.
Come the 11th amendment! We, strong on it! Re e emetse, rea e batla! Le eona we are going to fight!
Rea leboha.
HON SENATOR L.M. SEEISO: Joale ka ha ke ee ke cho hore ke mokhelo, Ntate Molula-Setulo, ‘na ke re ha rea abela Basotho toka. Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao ona joale ka ha ke ile ka cho pelenyana it was supposed to change the nature of politics tsa Lesotho, ‘me se siile Clauses tsa bohlokoa tse sa kenang hohang kahar’a sona.
Ka lona lebaka leno ha ke ts’epe haholo hore lintho tseo re neng re li batla, tseo Basotho ba neng ba li laba-labela hore li tla etsahala, li tla etsahala.
Ha se hore Sets’oants’o sa Molao se sebe hakaalo, Ntate Molula-Setulo, it’s just short, ‘me se short hantle hona moo ehlileng ‘moko taba o neng o le teng, haholo floor crossing mona le legal authorities, le tsena tsa Borena.
E ne e le hona moo litaba li neng li leng teng.
Marena a heso a ts’epile hore 11th Amendment e’a tla, empa ha ke na ts’epo ea hore 11th e tla tla. Ke nahana ha ho qeta ho fetisoa 10th Amendment ena – ao, Ntate! Session ena ea Paramente e tla be e oele 11th Amendment e sa fihle!
Joale empa eno re se re tla e bona hosane haeba ke fositse kapa ke nepile. ‘Na, Marena a ka, ke ne ke re Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se khutlele morao, se il’o kenya lintho tsohle tseo Basotho ba neng ba itse ba ea li batla kahar’a sona re tsebe ho o fetisa o nepahetse, re se ke ‘ne ra fetisa lintho tse sa tl’o ba sebeletsa kapa tse nyane.
‘me Le nts’oarele, beng ba ka, ka ‘nete, ka hore ebe ha ke tsamaee le lona; hase hampe kea le rata. Ha se hampe, beng ba ka, empa, che, hana ho itsoe ke tsamaea le Molimo oa ka! Ka ‘nete Molimo oa ka o cho joalo.
Kea leboha.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Morena oa ka oa Matsieng
HON. SENATOR S.B. SEEISO Ntate Motsamai, u tl’o bua? Ntate Vice-President, rea leboha. I don’t want – ha ke batle hoba a prophet of doom, empa ke rata hore ke re li bo fule li bo t’soha mohlaope bo se ke ba li t’soarisa serotsoana.
Honourable Minister and Ministers of His Majesty’s Government, I wish to express ka mokhoa o totobetseng, o hlaking, o unambiguous that it is unfortunate that we are always cynical in this House given the issues of National importance where we’re always given minimal time to debate and express our opinion and views to come to a mutual agreement or a mutual point of agreement.
Ha ke tsebe na ebe ke tloaelo e tla tloha neng hore Ntlo ena e Khabane e fuoe nako e e lokelang, ‘me ha u e fa nako e e lokelang ke ho bolela hore u e fa hlompho e lokelang. By shuttle poking this Bill through ka ‘nete le re timme monyetla. Be it that the case, seo ke lekang ho se cho ke hore e ‘ngoe hape it is unfortunate that we keep repeating – re pheta taba ena mehla ena le mehla ena ea hore ha re iphe monyetla oa ho lokisa litaba tsa rona ka lapeng re se na t’susumetso, re se na letsoalo la hore hosane haeba ke ea machabeng ke sa lokisa ke il’o fetoha set’sehisa.
Why do you always work under pressure? Under fear that the international community is the one that we have to please, athe the first audience eo re t’soanetseng ho e thabisa ke sechaba sa Basotho? We should not always feel under pressure ha ho thoe ho uoa SADC, kapa ho uoa UN kapa ho uoa kae. Ke hoban’eng le sa be tlas’a khatello ha hothoe re ea pitsong Mants’onyane?
Are we belittling kapa re nyenyefatsa Basotho? All that I am saying is that we hope and that we had hoped and are still hoping that the winds of change had blown what was pertaining for the last 50 years, and that we have turned the page and are walking differently, with a new hope. Ka t’sepo e ncha, ka tumelo e ncha, hore re tl’o sebetsa litaba tsa Basotho molemong oa Basotho ka boiketlo, ka hlompho le ka nako e tla lumela hore ebe litaba tsa Basotho lia khobotloa, lia lokisoa.
While I am in agreement that we should allow this 10th Amendment to pass, likoti li teng tseleng ea sena seo re qetang ho se etsa. Ke ile ka bua litaba tsena, Ntate Vice-President, ha re ne re qala taba ena maoba ke re ka bomali-mabe a Constitution ought to be a reflection of the desires of that Nation, the aspirations of that Nation, the heritage, a legacy of that Nation. We should not be proud that we are duplicating Westminister.
50 years ago we went and adopted the Westminister model, 50 years on re t’soanetse ebe re se re holile ho lekana hore ebe we have a home grown remedy ea hore na Constitution ea rona ea Basotho e t’soanetse ho ba joang!
Ka ‘nete boipiletso ba ka bo hlahang botebong ba pelo ea ngoana motho ke hore, oele! Bana bana ba naha ena, Basotho ba naha ena ba eme ka t’sepo le tumelo ea hore moea ona oa chencha, ‘me o lokela hore o bonahale in reality hore oa chencha.
We should not just pay lip service to change, but we should see change in the hearts and minds of our Leadership and thus growing a Nation together, so that aswe are together we can see a brighter Lesotho and a healthier Lesotho e tla ikemela machabeng ho sa thoe na hana Naha eane eo ho ntseng ho thoe ke Lesotho, e filoeng 8 million, ke efe? H’a qeta o tl’o etsa post Ambassador hosane, empa a ntse a re ha a tsebe naha.
Ntate Vice President, ka ‘nete, Ntate, e se e le mantsiboea, empa litaba tseo re li buang ese eka ekaba li hatisitsoe mono e le hore le kamoso ho tle ho sale ho ngoliloe hore ho ile hoa buua kahar’a Ntlo ena hore re lokela hore tsohle tseo re li etsang re li etse ka kutloisiso ea hore re li etsetsa molemong oa kholo , botsitso le boiketlo ba Basotho, eseng boiketlo ba Ntlo ena kapa eane ea Bakhethoa.
Ka mantsoe ana, Ntate, ke ema mono feela ka hore Ntate Richard Letona la ka le Khabane, Ntate, u re tataisitse ka team ea hao e sa hatisang litaba tsa ka, empa ha hona taba, empa kea ba leboha.
Ntate Tholo o se a lebohile.
Che, ‘na ke ne ke tl’o siea Manamolela hoba ka ‘nete ke sebapali se selehe, empa hee re leboha ka tataiso, mamello le boithapalatso ba hao le Tafole ea hao hore e re tataisitse hore ebe re fihlile mona. Ha ke na re, empa, hobane ha u re, ‘empa’ you are almost starting a new chapter.
Sekoti tseleng, Honourable Minister! We are looking and anticipating that the winds are blowing, of change, because this Nation deserves that change.
Kea leboha, Mr Vice-President.
HON. SENAOR MOKHATHALI: Ka ‘nete le ‘na ke ne ke mpa ke re ke kenye letsoho ho leboha. Taba ena e etsahetseng e kholo haholo kaha Basotho khale ba emetse ho e bona, hobane ka ‘nete kahar’a Molao ona ho na le lintho tse ling tse ntle haholo tseo re lumelang hore lehaeba li ke ke tsa qeta, empa li ka fetoha namo e itseng litsietsing tseo sechaba se leng ho tsona.
Ke utloile Morena oa Thaba a ntse a pheta makhetlo a mangata a ntse a re Molao ona leha o le motle empa ho na le lintho tseo u le motho u ka ratang hore ebe li etsahetse, empa ha ho se ho ntse ho sebetsoa mohlomong ebile ho fumanoa boeletsi tse ling li ke ke tsa lula ka tsela eo rona re neng re ka rata hore li be teng ha ho ipapisoa le hore na le melao e ee e ngoloe joang.
Ka ‘nete rea leboha ha taba ena e etsahetse, kaha ba bang re ithutile hore ha ho sebetsoa lintho tsa sechaba ho ba le boikokobetso le mamellano, ‘me ka ‘nete re e bone ho Litho tsa Ntlo, re e bone ho Tafole, re e bone le ho bo ‘Me le bo Ntate bane ba ntseng ba re thusa hore taba ena e tle e fihle. Re leboha haholo.
Ke ne ke batla ho hlaisa hape hore ke leboha Chairman ea Komiti ea litaba tsa Molao le Litho tsa Komiti eno. Ke bone ka nako e telele ha rona bao re seng Litho re le sieo – empa bona ba qetile nako e telele ba ntse batla mosebetsing mona. Ka ‘nete ke batla ho ba thoholetsa hore ebe re fihlile mona! Ka ‘nete, bo Ntate le bo ‘Me, re ile ra bona boitelo ba lona, ‘me rea leboha re fihla rona re se re sa etse mosebetsi o boima joalo ka ha lona le etsa, ‘me rea leboha.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke beha taba, Litho tse Khabane hore Set’soantso sena sa Molao se baloe Lekhetlo la Boraro, ‘me se fete.
QUESTION PUT AND AGREED TO
Litho tse khabane ho latela Standing Order number 46(6), se baloa ‘moho le Section 85 ea Molao oa Motheo, re tlameha ho tla nka mantsoe a lona individually, hobane joale Set’soant’so sena sa Molao se na le litemana tse hlokang Molao oa Motheo, tse hlokang two-thirds Majority, ‘me re kopa hore t’sepe e lle joale Ntate Clerk a tle a tsebe ho tsoela pele ka mosebetsi.
Ha t’sepe e ntse e lla, Ntate Clerk a ntse a itukisa hore a tsoele pele ka mosebetsi, ke ne ke kopa hore ho latela Standing number 61 ke mpe ke lokise li typo tse bileng teng ka hare ho Constitution ka mona:
- In Clause 1 line 2 delete the word ‘Bill’ and substitute with the word ‘Act’.
- In Clause 10 insert 70 before sub Clause 1.
Ena ea Clause 12 ke se ke ile ka e lokisa ha re ntse re le Komiting.
In Clause 15 (a) Section 111 (2) capitalise the word ‘Consolidated Fund’ and capitalise the following words, ‘Supplementary Budget’.
Ea ho qetela, in Clause 15 (b) Section 115 (1)(c), line 1, “Delete the word ‘Sub-Section’ and substitute with the word ‘Paragraph’.
DIVISION LIST
THOSE WHO AGREE: YESs
- Hon. Senator B.G. Api
- Hon. Senator N.A. Bereng
- Hon. Senator T.D.L. Bereng
- Hon. Senator M. Kanetsi
- Hon. Senator M.L. Lebona
- Hon. Senator M.Q. Majara
- Hon. Senator M.C. Makhaola
- Hon. Senator S.G. Masupha
- Hon. Senator T.K.T. Matela
- Hon. Senator S.D. Mojela
- Hon. Senator M. Mokhathali
- Hon. Senator R. Mopeli
- Hon. Senator M.M. Moshoeshoe
- Hon. Senator N.M. Moteane
- Hon. Senator S. Motsamai
- Hon. Senator S.S. Nkuebe
- Hon. Senator R. Ramoeletsi
- Hon. Senator L.L. Seeiso
- Hon. Senator S.B. Seeiso
- Hon. Senator Q. Sekonyela
- Hon. Senator L. Tau
- Hon. Senator K.L.K. Theko
THOSE WHO DISAGREE: NOs
- Hon. Senator L.M. Seeiso
THOSE ABSENT:
- Hon. Senator L. Khoaele
- Hon. Senator Dr. L. Lebese
- Hon. Senator M.S. Maama
- Hon. Senator P.S. Mathealira
- Hon. Senator M.T. Mohale
- Hon. Senator M.S. Moholobela
- Hon. Senator M. Moletsane II
- Hon. Senator S.H. Monatsi
- Hon. Senator J.A. Mots’oene
- Hon. Senator R.P.L. Peete
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, ke ts’oere Sephetho sa Voting. Ntlo ena e Khabane ea Senate e bopuoe ka Litho tse Mashome a Mararo a Metso e Meraro (33). Hona ho bolela hore hore re fumane 2/3 Majority re hloka li-Vote tse Mashome a Mabeli a Metso e ‘Meli (22) tsa Litho tsena tse Mashome a Mararo a Metso e Meraro (33).
Joale Sephetho seo ke se ts’oereng koano re na le Setho se le seng (1) se khahlanong le ho fetisoa ha Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao. Re na le Litho tse leshome (10) tse sieo. Ebe re na le Litho tse Mashome a Mabeli a Metso e ‘Meli (22) tse ts’ehetsang hore Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se Baloe Lekhetlo la Boraro, ‘me se fete.
Bill accordingly read the Third Time, and passed.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke ne ke re, Litho tse Khabane, ka bokhuts’oanyane bo boholo ke nke monyetla ona le ‘na ho leboha seabo sa lona, ho leboha boitelo ba lona Mosebetsing ona, ho leboha mamello ea lona ka litsela tsohle tse fapakaneng tseo le kentseng letsoho ka tsona hore Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se fete.
Kea le leboha, Litho tse Khabane.
Ke lokela hore le lona, Bahlomphehi Matona a Khabane, kea tseba hore le Litho tsa Ntlo ena, empa ke ne ke re le lona ke le lebohe ka boteng ba lona ka mona; le re thusitse haholo hore Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se fete.
Ke kopa hore ke lebohe Tafole ea haeso, eo le eona e sebelitseng kathata ho tloha ha Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao se fihla ka mona, e sebetsa ‘moho le Legislation Committee.
Kea le leboha.
Hansard Section, le etsa mosebetsi oa bohlokoa, le lona ke rata hore ke le lebohe. Media le lona bohle mono, ba Ts’ireletso, ke kopa hore kannete ke le lebohe bohle-bohle kaofela.
Ha kea lokela ho lebala batho ba OPC (OFFICE OF PARLIAMENTARY COUNCIL) ‘moho le mekhatlo eo le ileng la e mema mona hobane e cha e ts’ola litabeng tsena. Ke rata hore le bona kannete ke ba lebohe ka hore ba kentse letsoho hore ebe re fihlile mona moo re fetisitseng Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
Question that Standing Order No. 31 (3) be applied, put and agreed to.
URGENT MOTION
MOTION 45: ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE
HON. SENATOR N.M. MOTEANE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ke kopa ho sisinya:
“That this Honourable Senate when it rises today, Thursday, 5th June, 2025, it do adjourn Sine Die.”
Taba ena e etsoa ho re fa monyetla oa hore ka mor’a hore re lule, re ntse re sebetsa Mosebetsi ona, re ke re tsamaee re e’o phomola.
Ka ho fetisisa e re fa hore hape ha e le mona mosebetsi ona o phethahetse ho tle ho tsebe ho bitsoa Ntlo ea Bakhethoa nakong ena eo lona le tla beng le phomotse, ho re ba e’o sebetsana le Lihlomathiso tseo le li entseng.
Ka mantsoe ana, Mohlomphehi, kea sisinya.
SELEBALO…khetha PHOOKO 05/06/2025 16:26-16:36
HON.SENATOR.L.TAU: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Mookameli oa Ntlo. Kannete ke ema mona ho tlatsa tlhahiso ea Leader of the House hore letsatsing la kajeno Ntlo ena ha e phomola e phomole nako e sa boleloeng, hobane ‘nete sebele ke hore le nako e ea lumela le lirame ka ntle ka mona li re, ee, ehlile ke nako ea hore re il’o phomola!
Joale empa haholo-holo ke hore joaloka Basotho, le lijo ke hore re il’o li phutha masimong.
Ka hona kea tlatsa, Mohlomphehi.
Question proposed
HON.SENATOR.S.MOTSAMAI: Ntate Vice-President le Litho tse Khabane, kannete Litho li khathetse; ke hore kea utloa leha ke ema tjena ke utloa hore molumo o fatsé mona ke o bontsáng mokhathala,kahoo ‘na ke ne ke re ba ke ba il’o phomola, ba phuthe masimong, ba boele hape ba lokise mobu sebakeng sa temo ea lehlabula.
Lona ba likomiti le ‘ne le tle re qeteleng thoto e matsohong ena, e le hore e tle e re ha re khutla re tle re tsebe hore re batla re qetile.
Kannete ntle le mono re entse mosebetsi o moholo, Ntate Vice-President, kannete oo ba seng ba lebohile ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe, empa ‘na ke ne ke re ha re il’o phomolang feela re khutle re le matla.
Kannete ke ile ka bona ntho e kholo haholo kannete, Morena Masupha, ha Ntlo e tlaloa ke thabo e kholo, Ntate! Joale ha ekare ha le khutla energy eno ea ‘na ea ba teng la se ke la tla le e siile masimong ke taba ea bohlokoa haholo kannete.
Kea tlatsa. Kea leboha,
HON.SENATOR.M.C. MAKHAOLA: Ke ema ke ts’ehetsa tlhahiso ena e potlakileng ka Mohlomphehi Leader of the House. Kannete haebe ke tlhahiso e ananeloang ke Litho rea leboha.
Ke ne ke mpa ke ipotsa mona feela ke re ebe, Mohlomphehi Leader of the House, ha le ananela ‘moho tlhahiso ena ea Leader of the House le ke le ananele, le e qete ka hore, for the record, lea hlapanya, lea tiisa le le Litho tsa Ntlo ena hore Senate e ntse e le the overseer! Ke batla le etse tlhapanyo le botiiso bono ba hore Ntlo ena e ntse e le the overseer ho latela the Constitution! Ha le ka etsa boitlamo bono ke tlaba le t’sepo ho lona, empa ha le ka bo etsa ignore ha kena t’sepo ho lona.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, kea tlatsa.
Question put and agreed to.
RESOLVED:
That this Honourable Senate when it rises today, Thursday, 5th June,2025, it do adjourn sine die.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business on the Order Paper, Mr. Vice-President adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order No.16(3)
The House was adjourned Sine die at 16:30 hrs.