OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE SENATE OF LESOTHO
6th Meeting – First Session
Eleventh Parliament
Date: Tuesday 29th August, 2024.
LENANE LA LITHO TSA NTLO EA MAHOSANA TSA PARAMENTE EA LESHOME LE MOTSO O MONG
| 1.Hon. Seeiso B. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Matsieng |
| 2. Hon. Joel A. Motšoene | Principal Chief of Leribe |
| 3.Hon. Sempe Gabasheane Masupha | Principal Chief of Ha ’Mamathe, Thupa-Kubu, Teya-Teyaneng le Jordan |
| 4.Hon. Mamolapo M. Q Majara | Principal Chief of Ha Majara |
| 5.Hon. Tumane Matela | Principal Chief of Makhoakhoeng |
| 6.Hon. Moeketsi Moletsane II | Principal Chief of Taung |
| 7.Hon. Lerotholi Mathealira Seeiso | Principal Chief of Mokhotlong |
| 8. Hon. Lerotholi L. Seeiso | Principal Chief of Likhoele |
| 9. VACANT | Principal Chief of Phamong |
| 10.Hon. Mojela T. Makhaola | Principal Chief of Qacha’s Nek |
| 11.Hon. Seeiso S. H. Nkuebe | Principal Chief of Quthing |
| 12.Hon. Nthupi A. Bereng | Principal Chief of Rothe, Masite, Serooeng, Letšeng, Kolo Ha Mohlalefi le Thaba-Tseka Ha Ntaote |
| 13.Hon. K.L.K Khoabane | Principal Chief of Thaba-Bosiu |
| 14.Hon. Mitchel S. Maama | Principal Chief of Ha Maama |
| 15.Hon Moholobela M. Moholobela | Principal Chief of Matelile |
| 16.Hon. Bereng G. Seeiso Api | Principal Chief of Ha Ramabanta le Kubake |
| 17. Peete Lesaoana Peete | Principal Chief of Koeneng le Mapoteng |
| 18.Hon. ’Mako T.Mohale | Principal Chief of Tajane, Ha Moetsana le Ha Mohale |
| 19. Hon. Khoabane T. Mojela | Principal Chief of Tebang, Tšakholo le Ha Seleso |
| 20. Hon. Retšelisitsoe Mopeli | Principal Chief of Botha-Bothe |
| 21.Hon. Pontšo S. Mathealira | Principal Chief of Tsikoane, Peka le Kolbere |
| 22.Hon. Qeto Sekonyela | Principal Chief of Malingoaneng |
| 23.Hon.’Mawinnie Kanetsi | Senator |
| 24. Hon. Lebona Khoaele | Senator |
| 25. Hon. Thabiso Lebese | Senator |
| 26. Hon. ‘Maphakiso Lebona | Senator |
| 27. Hon. ’Mabataung Patricia Mokhathali | Senator |
| 28. Hon.Sehlooho HenryMonatsi | Senator |
| 29. Hon. ‘Makholu Moshoeshoe | Senator |
| 30. Hon. Neo Matjato Moteane | Senator |
| 31. Hon. Seabata Motsamai | Senator |
| 32. Hon.Richard Ramoeletsi | Senator |
| 33. Hon. Limpho Tau | Senator |
PARLIAMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
SENATE CHAMBER
Thursday 29th August, 2024
The House assembled at 10:30 a.m.
(MR. VICE PRESIDENT in the Chair)
PRAYER
The Chaplain led the House in Prayer
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Ke kopa ho le lumelisa le ho le amohela hape kajeno, Litho tse Khabane tsa Ntlo.
Kajeno lena ha re na litsebiso ha ese feela hore ke le hopotse, Litho tse Khabane, hore re ile ra kopa hore sebakeng sa leeto la rona la Morero oa Metsi a Lihlaba, Katse, Polihali le ‘Muela la ho tloha ka li10 ho isa ka 13, hore le ngolise le Tafole re tle re tsebe ho tseba hore na ke bo mang ba eang. Taba eno e tl’o re thusa hore bane ba Morero oa Metsi a Lihlaba ba tle ba tsebe ho tseba hore na ba lokisetsa Litho tse kae, hobane e bohlokoa taba eno. Re se ke ra tloha ra ba kenya lits’enyehelong tsa ho lokisa ho etsa li-bookings le ho etsa litlhophiso tse ling sebakeng sa Litho tse tl’o tla li sitoa hore li ee ka mabaka.
Joale ho bohlokoa hore re tsebe hore na ke Bahlomphehi bafe ba tla tseba hore ba be teng, ke bafe ba tla tseba hore ba be sieo.
Joale ke ne ke re le hopole, Litho tse Khabane, ke ile ka utloa hore ho ne ho ntse ho na le ba bang ba es’okang ba ngolisa. Re ne re kopa hore le etse joalo kaofela hoa lona. Le ba sieo re tle re thusaneng hore ba hopotsoe hore ba etse joalo.
Le tla hopola hore maobane re ile ra tlaleha hore ho na le Litho tse hlano tse ileng to a Workshop, le tsona re tle re thusane hore li tle li fumane molaetsa, ba ngolise kaofela hoa bona ba tla tseba ho ea.
Next item Mr. Clerk
MOTION
MOTION 28. Motion of Elevation of Vocational SCHOOLS
(Resumption of adjourned debate on question, Wednesday, 28th August, 2024)
MR. VICE PRESDENT: Ntlha ea Tsamaiso, Morena oa ka oa Ha Maama.
HON. SENATOR M. MAAMA: Ntate Vice President, ka hlompho le ka boikokobetso ke ne re haeka ekare Tlhahiso ena ea Setho se Khabane ke Tlhahiso ea bohlokoa hakana-kana! Ke ho re e kholo haholo, hobane joale le mesebetsi ha e eo, ‘me ke ne ke utloa ekare taba eno ka boeona e tla araba tsona litaba tse kang tsena tsa hore mesebetsi ha e eo.
Moo boholo ba puso bo leng teng ka li- PS le Matona-che u se u kile ua nkaraba, Ntate, hore Ntlo e ile ea etsa tsebiso. Feela ke re na ebe Melaoana ea Tsamaiso ea Ntlo na ebe e r’eng? Na taba ee e ke ke ea boela ea checha hape-hape?
Hona joale tjena maikutlo a rona e ne e le hore Lekala la Temo ka bolona le na le mathata a maholo haholo ka basupisi. Empa ha u fihla ka mono ka Sekolong sa Temo u fumana litaba tse fapakaneng, tse thata haholo, tseo ke neng ke re, ebe ha u bone eka ho bohlokoa hore bonyane leha Matona a sa ka a ba teng, li-PS tsona li ke li be teng?
Ha ke tsebe haeba ho ka etsahala hore ebe taba ee e ka checha hape-hape, e ke e beheloe letsatsi le le leng moo li-PS li tla mamela Setho sena se Khabane ka Tlhahiso ena ea hae ea bohlokoahali?
Kea leboha
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Ke tla tla ho uena, Morena oa ka oa Lioli, ke ne ke re ke arabe Ntlha ena ea Tsamaiso ea Morena oa ka oa Ha Maama.
Joale ka ha ke ile ka cho maobane, Morena oa ka, Motion ona ke o mong oa li-Motion tse bohlokoa ka tsela e khethehileng. Litaba tse buueng maobane ka mona ‘na ke utloile u re ho lihuoa lithaba joalekaha ke ile ka hlalosa.
Joale ka ha ke ile ka hlalosa ke ne ke utloa e le Motion oa bohlokoa, hobane re bona re na le baithuti ba bangata haholo ba ntseng ba chesa mophato from li-university tse fapakaneng, feela ba ntseng ba subuhlellana kahar’a labour market ka mona ba sa sebetse, ho se mosebetsi.
‘Na nakong eo ke neng ke ntse ke sebetsa ke le Letona ho ne ho na le ba bang ba fotseng, ba na le 10 years koana Public Service. Ke ho re ke lumela hore ho na le ba latang lilemo tse mashome a mabeli joale ba ntse ba le ho li-list mono tsa batho ba fihlang ba tlatsa liforomo ha ba tsoa ka sekolong ba sa sebetse.
Ba bang ba se ba sitoa le ho ea mono ba il’o tlatsa liforomo, hobane ha ba na ts’epo hobane ba re, “‘nyeo o ile a ‘na a tlatsa lilemo tse hlano tse fetileng e ntse e le enoa re ntse re lula le eena hae”. Taba eno e se e bile e romela le molaetsa o mobe ho batho ba ntseng ba hola, hore “ekare sekolo ha se na thuso ke hore re mpe re ee litotomeng kaofela”.
Joale ka ‘nete taba eno e bohlokoa haholo. Ha e ne e behoa ke ne ke nahana hore joale ka ha ke ile ka bolela maobane, hore it is just a matter of a saturated market or if not a saturated market ke hore eka ‘na eaba re se re na le over supply ea li-graduate ha mesebetsi e le tlaase… Supply ea ma-graduate e se e le holimo haholo ha demand e le tlaase. Ke ne ke na le kutloisiso ea mofuta ono.
Ke sona seo ke se bolelang ka hore the labour market is saturated, empa taba e ‘ngoe eo ke neng ke e hopola ke hore taba ena e ka ‘na ea tsoaloa ke hore what we are producing kapa seo likolo tsa rona se li hlahisang se se se le totally irrelevant to the requirements of the market. Joale ebe likolo tsona li ntse li ruta feela li sa tsotelle hore na ho etsahal’ang.
Ke belaela le hore le research ha ba e etse hore ba shebe hore na li-products tsa bona li ntse li ba absorbed in the labour market; hoa bona ke ho hlahisa feela ba etse chelete.
Ke ne ke belaela joalo, empa ka morao ho presentation ea Honourable Kanetsi joale a tlatsoa ke Honourable Dr. Lebese ke ile ka utloa litaba tse ncha tse buuoang ke Dr Lebese tse ileng tsa nts’osa haholo tseo ke ileng ka utloa hore, ache! Ka ‘nete tsena li hloka hore ebe Minister of Education o teng ka mona a tl’o tla a utloa litaba tsena.
E ne e le moo a neng a bua ka taba ea hore joale education system ea rona ehlile ke eona e ts’oelang baithuti. O ile a bua ka litaba tse kholo haholo tsa hore re bile le free primary education joale ra be re fihla re e kopanya le ‘pele feela’. ‘Pele feela’ ke ho bolela hore ha ho feiloe. Joale a re “ka ‘nete re se re na le lihlahisoa in the market tseo e leng hore they even struggle to construct a sentence a tsoa university. Eseng ea sekhooa feela, le ea Sesotho! Ke ho re they are struggling. Ke ho re litaba tseno tseo Dr. Lebese a neng a li bua ke linnete tse phelang.
Ke ne ke fumana ho le bohlokoa –ke mokhoa ona ke ileng ka bua le Bahlomphehi maobane hore ba atamele, ebile ke nahana hore ha b’a tsebisoa, empa ka fumana hore taba eno ea mangolo ha es’o ka e fihla. Joale le kajeno ba ntse ba le sieo ha ke tsebe le haeba ho la gallery mane ebe ekaba Makala ano a emetsoe. Feela eka ‘na eaba taba ena ke e ‘ngoe ea mats’oao a hore batho ba nka lintho hanyane hoo leha ba ka ba ba teng ka mona ba tl’o tla ba ba teng for the sake ea hore ba bile teng, ebe ha ho na letho le tlang ho etsahala.
That is why I was even proposing hore re ke re tl’o tla re etsa amend Standing Order sa Ntlo ena hore ha Setho se Khabane sa Ntlo ena se entse Motion, re be le temana kapa Standing Order tse tlamang Letona la Lekala le amehang hore le tl’o tla le etsa address Ntlo ena.
Ha Ntlo ena e qala e lumetse a tle ka mona a tl’o tla a etsa address Ntlo ena hore na ntlha-kemo ea hae ke efe kapa ntlha-kemo ea ‘Muso ke efe litabeng tsena tse tekiloeng ke Ntlo le hore na what is the way forward. Re lebelle eng re le Ntlo ena ho fapana le hore u fumane hore Litho tsa Ntlo ena li etsa li-motion ebe qetellong ea letsatsi ha ho na letho le etsahalang, ba ts’oana le batho ba ntseng ba bohola khoeli.
E leng ho re ka bokhuts’oanyane, Mohlomphehi oa ka, litaba tsa hau kea li rata, feela ke tla tataisoa ke Ntlo ena.
Ke ne ke bone eka Morena oa ka oa Lioli o ne a na le Ntlha ea Tsamaiso le eena?
HON. SENATOR S. G. MASUPHA: Ke qale ka hore ke lumelise, ke u hlomphe, ke hlomphe Tafole le bohle ba teng ka mona Bahlomphehi.
Ke ema ka eona Ntlha ea Tsamaiso ena ea hore ebile ke eketsa ho Morena oa ka ka mokhoa oo a seng a buile kateng. Ke utloa ke belaela ekare ho na le mosebetsi oo Tafole ea hau e sa o etseng.
Ke cho tjena hobane u re bonts’itse maobane taba ena e bohlokoa haholo, joale ka ha u qeta ho hlalosa le hona joale, empa ke mona le letsatsing lena ua tseba hoa bonahala Ntlo ee e hlomphehang hakana-kana e le Ntlo e ka holimo ea Paramente – ke utloa ke makala ebile ke ts’oha ka ‘nete, hobane ke bona ekare re tla qetella re sebetsa re le babeli ka mona, haeba Melaoana ea Ntlo ena e ke ke ea etsa hore e sebetse kathata.
Ntlha ea bobeli ke eona ena eo u qetang ho e bua, ha ke rate ho kena ho eona.
Ntlha ea ho qetela, Mohlomphehi, ke ea hore ke ne ke lebeletse hore, Mohlomphehi, pele u re taba ena e tsoelepele u tla re fa tlaleho ea hore na ebe Bahlomphehi ba neng ba lokela hore ebe ba teng na ba ntse ba e tla ,‘me ha ba sa tle ke ne ke utloa ekare taba ena e ne e loketse hore ka mokhoa o automatic ebe e se e chechela morao, e le hobane u e hlalositse hore ke taba ea bohlokoa haholo ena eo Honourable Kanetsi a qetang ho bua ka eona, a tlatsitsoe ke Dr. Lebese. Le ‘na ke sa ntsane ke tlatsa joalo, ke re ha ke bone bohlokoa ba hore taba ena letsatsing lena e tsoelepele.
Ehlile ke etsa tlhahiso ena, Mohlomphehi, hore haeba Melaoana ea Ntlo ena e tla ntumella hore ke sisinye, Ntate, hore taba ena e ke e cheche, ho ke ho bonoe ka tsela e ‘ngoe e le hore ho tle ho tsejoe hore e tl’o buuoa ka mokhoa o nepahetseng, Ntlo ena e tletse le Bahlomphehi ba le teng.
Kea leboha.
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Morena oa ka oa Lioli, e ‘ngoe ea lintho tseo re neng re ka li etsa e ne e ka ba-hobane Ntlo ena e kholo haholo e bohlokoa. E ne e ka ba ho phomotsa Ntlo nakoana hore joale re meme Matona a Khabane hore a tle, empa kea hlokomelisoa hore ehlile ha re na Standing Order se ba tlamang ho tla; ke ho ea ba kopa. Ha u mo kopa a ka ‘na a u bolella hore –joalo ka maobane ha ke ne ke bua le bona ka marang-rang nakong eo re neng re ntse re sebetsa mona, e mong o ile a mpolella hore eena o ka ntle ho Maseru.
Joale e tla be e le ho ba kopa hore ba tle joale ka ha ke chulo.
Ka’nete e ‘ngoe ea lintho tse kholo tseo re lokelang hore re li etse ke hore re ke re ntlafatse li-Standing Order tsa rona. Empa ‘na eo ke utloang ekare kea e amohela, empa ke tl’o kopa tataiso ho lona, ke ena ea hore re ke re etse tlhophiso e phethahetseng hore Bahlomphehi ba tl’o ba teng ka mona, hobane litaba tsena li kholo.
Hantle-ntle le tsena tseo ba li lisitseng ke ne ke utloa ekare ke rata ekare ba ne ba ka hla ba li utloa hantle ba se ke ba li fumana from the Hansard.
Morena oa ka oa Melele o ile a re ba il’o fuoa copy ea Hansard ba li bale, empa re tla tlameha ho re re ba fe copy ea Hansard, hobane Melaoana e tsamaisang Ntlo ha e lumele hore holim’a taba e ts’oanang ebe Litho li tl’o tla li e pheta hape-hape.
Joale ka lebaka leno re tla tlameha maoto le matsoho hore re ba fe Hansard. Ho tloha mona ho ea pele re tle re fe ba es’o kang ba ba le monyetla oa ho bua hore ba tle ba bue holim’a taba ena.
Ke ne ke kopa hore pele ke kopa tataiso ea Ntlo hore na re ea pele joang, joale ka ha Morena oa ka oa Manonyane le Morena oa ka oa Lioli ba se ba behile, ke ts’oanela hore ke behe litaba tsena kapele ho lona le le Ntlo.
Joale empa ke bone hore Honourable Senator Monatsi o na le Ntlha ea Tsamaiso. Ke ne ke kopa hore pele ke ea mono nke ke qale ka eena pele.
HON. SENATOR S. H. MONATSI: Ke u lebohe, Ntate Vice President.
Ke ne ke se na litaba tse ngata, ke ne ke suthumetsa taba eno ea Ha Maama ke re ke tlatsa le ho aka taba ea Morena oa Lioli le Morena oa Maama hore ntlha eno e bohlokoa. Haeba mokhoa o teng, eba ho Standing Orders mono ho na le melaoana eo e reng ba ngolloe, ha ba etsetsoe mangolo hore ba koptjoa ho tla mona, hobane ho bonahala joale eka ba nka Ntlo ena hanyane.
Ba nka re tletse ho chaka feela, athe re mona molemong oa naha le sechaba sena sa Basotho.
Taba ena ea ‘M’e Kanetsi e kholo haholo, kahoo ke tlatsa mantsoe ano a bo-Ntate ao ba seng ba a behile hore ka ‘nete ha ba ke ba iphe nako ea hore ba tle ba tl’o e utloa.
Litaba tsena tsa maobane u se u li boletse, li bile kholo haholo tseo Dr. Lebese a buileng ka tsona. Ba bang re ne re se leseling la tsona.
Kea leboha.
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Kea leboha, Setho se Khabane.
Litho tse Khabane, boemong bona ba litaba ke salloa ke taba e le ‘ngoe feela ea hore ke kope tataiso ea lona le le Ntlo hore re ke re emise litaba tsena tsa Motion oa Honourable Kanetsi hoa nakoana ho fihleletse re entse tlhophiso ea hore Matona a Khabane a ikarabellang, e leng Letona la Thuto le Koetliso ‘moho le Letona la Lichelete le Meralo ea Nts’etsopele ba le teng ka mona.
Question put and agreed to
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Ke boemong boo ke utloang eka Litho tse Khabane re entse qeto ea hore ha re tsoelepele ho fihlela Matona a Khabane a ikarabellang a le teng ka koano kapa boemeli ba bona, le hona ba level e batlang e le holimo haholo, bo le teng ka koano.
Joale empa re rata bona, hobane re tla rata hore ka morao ho mono ba ke ba etse address Ntlo hore na kamorao ho litaba tsa Motion ona-hobane joale ha e le liofisiri tsa bona li ke ke tsa kena ka mona ka har’a Well tsa tla tsa etsa address Ntlo hore na li r’eng.Ba tla chomoha feela ba tsoe mane nakong eo re chaisang, empa haele matona ka ha a kena ka mona re tla mo fa monyetla hore joale a re etse address.
Ke utloa ekare rea lumellana?
HON. SENATOR M. KANETSI: Kea kholoa ke hobane re ntse re e sheba mona re re e ka ba hantle hore re hle re hlake hore taba ea Bahlomphehi Matona, hobane joale ho buuoa ka taba ea ho sheba ho fetola policy…
E leng hore batho ba rongoeng ba tla boetse ba ntse ba re re sa isa litaba kae-kae. E se e le ha bona ba ka ba tla ba ba tlatsitse mohlomong ka litaba kae-kae.
Ke sisinya hore e hle ebe Bahlomphehi Matona ka moifo.
[liatla]
MR. VICE PRESIDENT: Re lebohile haholo, Honourable Kanetsi. Re tla etsa tlhophiso ea hore Bahlomphehi Matona ba hle ba be teng. Bano ba ba tlatsitseng kapa Liofisiri tseno tsa bona – leha ke ee ke bone morao tjena esa etsahale, ha E ne e etsahala haholo mehleng ea rona ntho eno, re le Bahlanka re ne re ba teng ha Matona a tlile ka mona. Joale re tseba hore Matona ho na le lintho tse ling tseo li ka ‘na tsa ba tsietsa, joale ebe re se ntse re etsa koantsanyane mane re fa Matona.
Ke ee ke bone Matona a morao tjena a betsoa feela! Le joale they are very brilliant haeba baatleha hore ba ‘ne batsebe hore ba tsoapele, ba arabele Litho tse Khabane le moo e leng hore they are cornered. Ka nepo ba tšoanela ba felehetsoe, ‘me le bona ba tla itlatsa ka Liofisiri tsa bona tseo li tla tla li ba thusa hore li ba hlahlelle hore nakong eo Letona le etsang address Ntlo a tle a se ke a lebala lintlha life, a thetse lintlhla life.
Re tl’o tla re etsa tlhophiso, Litho tse Khabane, leha ke sa bone ekare_ kaha joale ke hona re il’o ba atamela re lule le bona ka kotloloho re shebisane taba ena. Ka ‘nete ha ke bone eka re ka re re etsa suspend Ntlo ebe re tla khutla neng-neng. Re kopa hore le re lumelle hore re il’o sebetsa taba ena, re phomotse Ntlo ho fihlela ka Labobeli ka 10:30 a.m. re il’o hlopha litaba tsena le Bahlomphehi Matona hore ba tle ba be teng ho tla tsoelapele ka litaba tsena bekeng e tlang.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further Business on the Order Paper, Mr Vice- President adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 16 (3).
The House was adjourned accordingly at 10:57 a.m.